Online mastering - 2008/07/07 23:13Has anyone had any experience with having their project mastered online? There are a number of big companies now advertising fairly inexpensive rates, but I wonder about the quality. Maybe some of you are offering the service yourself. Interested in anybody's experience in this area...
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thel1195
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/08 04:19I saw a few online as well. I was interested, especially since the local guy here in Dallas is giving me the low price of 700.00 for 40 minutes. It does include the duplication master with song and album text, and a listening disc. With the cost of duplication, it might as well be a mortgage. But I never got a responce back on my inquiry. If they won't contact me on a sales opportunity, I have to think I will regret sending my music to them. I'll try to find the name and post it.
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mparker
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/08 09:42You need to get hold of this - http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/. The inbuilt presets alone will make your music sound awesome. With a bit of knowledge, you'll be tweaking the settings to make masters as good as anyone else.
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thel1195
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/08 17:07mparker wrote: You need to get hold of this - http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/. The inbuilt presets alone will make your music sound awesome. With a bit of knowledge, you'll be tweaking the settings to make masters as good as anyone else.
I have heard some good things about this product. I'm not ready to climb that mountain yet. Many, many knowledgable folks have advised me to have it done by someone who knows until I'm ready to commit to learning the process. After visiting a mastering studio, I understand why. But I guess it all comes down to how good is good enough. That's why I'll have it done this time if for no other reason to establish a benchmark. Once I know what to aim for, then I may decide to take the plunge.
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mparker
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/08 19:48Download the demo and try it out. You may be surprised. It's not as hard as people make out - as long as you've got a decent pair of ears.
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ColinGarvey
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/09 00:52I may give that a go; I have a live album that's been gathering dust because I can't afford to get it mastered. According to the website the demo is functional for 10 days - that should be long enough. Yes, I know, call me Mr Cheapskate. I'm utterly broke, OK?
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Lightbox
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/09 02:45I've been thinking about getting Ozone as well and also have had a friend in the industry tell me that mastering is best done by someone other than the musician (in order to get perspective as well as to rely on the experience of a pro). But the cost of hiring a pro is probably out of my league, especially with fuel costs looming like a hammer (oil powered) over my head. The online stuff seems pretty inexpensive (Guitar Center, Musician's Friend) but I have to wonder if they aren't just using software like Ozone and cranking the masters out.
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thel1195
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/09 18:12That it. Perspective is the real key. I am the most critical judge of my own music than could ever exist (outside my mother). So I tend to judge my own music on a curve based on the errors I know I made creating the music. When you give your stuff to someone who doesn't know the history, they work impartially. That was a new thought to me but a valid one. I got this perspective from the mastering engineer, who started as a mix engineer. Mastering speakers are different than HiFi (high fidelty) speakers. They sound aweful, but the response is completely flat. So ears aside, there are some real differences in how a true mastering engineer works and thier equipment.
But...
I'll propose an experiment. For those who want to put thier weirding ways to use, I say that a music exchange be initiated. Those with the mastering tools can work on music from some willing RPMer's stuff. It serves the purpose of perspective. Heck, I don't mind throwing a few bucks in the deal so that its not charity work. And it give practice to those looking serious at mastering.
What say yee?
Post edited by: thel1195, at: 2008/07/09 18:14
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BrokenPromiseKeeper
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/09 18:30ColinGarvey wrote: I may give that a go; I have a live album that's been gathering dust because I can't afford to get it mastered. According to the website the demo is functional for 10 days - that should be long enough. Yes, I know, call me Mr Cheapskate. I'm utterly broke, OK?
I'm cheap too, but this is a deal-breaker for just trying to use the demo for 10 days:
"In demo mode, Ozone mutes the output for about 1 second every 40 seconds or so. Other than that all functionality is enabled."
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mparker
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/09 19:36BrokenPromiseKeeper wrote: ColinGarvey wrote: I may give that a go; I have a live album that's been gathering dust because I can't afford to get it mastered. According to the website the demo is functional for 10 days - that should be long enough. Yes, I know, call me Mr Cheapskate. I'm utterly broke, OK?
I'm cheap too, but this is a deal-breaker for just trying to use the demo for 10 days:
"In demo mode, Ozone mutes the output for about 1 second every 40 seconds or so. Other than that all functionality is enabled."
You missed this bit "Without authorization, Ozone will function for 10 days. After 10 days, the plug-in will operate in demo mode until authorized."
You get a full 10 days out of it before it starts cutting out.
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mparker
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/09 19:39thel1195 wrote: I'll propose an experiment. For those who want to put thier weirding ways to use, I say that a music exchange be initiated. Those with the mastering tools can work on music from some willing RPMer's stuff. It serves the purpose of perspective. Heck, I don't mind throwing a few bucks in the deal so that its not charity work. And it give practice to those looking serious at mastering.
What say yee?<br><br>Post edited by: thel1195, at: 2008/07/09 18:14
I'll have a go at mastering other people's stuff for no fee. I have the full Logic Studio and Ozone so hopefully I can send back something professional sounding. Obviously I'll only work on uncompressed WAV or AIFF files (24bit if you're setup is capable).
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BrokenPromiseKeeper
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/10 03:02mparker wrote: BrokenPromiseKeeper wrote: ColinGarvey wrote: I may give that a go; I have a live album that's been gathering dust because I can't afford to get it mastered. According to the website the demo is functional for 10 days - that should be long enough. Yes, I know, call me Mr Cheapskate. I'm utterly broke, OK?
I'm cheap too, but this is a deal-breaker for just trying to use the demo for 10 days:
"In demo mode, Ozone mutes the output for about 1 second every 40 seconds or so. Other than that all functionality is enabled."
You missed this bit "Without authorization, Ozone will function for 10 days. After 10 days, the plug-in will operate in demo mode until authorized."
You get a full 10 days out of it before it starts cutting out.
thanks, I didn't see that, I should have looked more closely. I will have to check it out
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Lightbox
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/10 16:25That's generous of you to offer. Your stuff sounds nicely layered and professional. I'm not sure if my folk style stuff would give as much opportunity for creative mastering, but if I finish something and you want to have a go, I think it would be interesting to try. Especially if you could tell me how you used Ozone since that is the product I am looking at...
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Lightbox
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/10 16:26Oops. Forgot to quote. Meant to address that last comment to Matt.
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mparker
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/10 20:50Lightbox wrote: That's generous of you to offer. Your stuff sounds nicely layered and professional. I'm not sure if my folk style stuff would give as much opportunity for creative mastering, but if I finish something and you want to have a go, I think it would be interesting to try. Especially if you could tell me how you used Ozone since that is the product I am looking at...
My basic technique is to choose a preset that gets close to what sound I want (there are 100s) and then tweak it a bit. It also has a matching EQ built in, so you can grab the EQ settings off a CD that you'd like your music to sound like and get it to match the EQ between the two as a secondary step.
If you want me to, I'll have a go at mastering one of your tracks and save the settings as a preset so you can see what I've done.
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Lightbox
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/10 23:05mparker wrote: Lightbox wrote: That's generous of you to offer. Your stuff sounds nicely layered and professional. I'm not sure if my folk style stuff would give as much opportunity for creative mastering, but if I finish something and you want to have a go, I think it would be interesting to try. Especially if you could tell me how you used Ozone since that is the product I am looking at...
My basic technique is to choose a preset that gets close to what sound I want (there are 100s) and then tweak it a bit. It also has a matching EQ built in, so you can grab the EQ settings off a CD that you'd like your music to sound like and get it to match the EQ between the two as a secondary step.
If you want me to, I'll have a go at mastering one of your tracks and save the settings as a preset so you can see what I've done.
OK. When I get a track mixed as best I'm able I'll send you a message. Maybe we could post a before and after under my profile and you can describe what you did in this forum...
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thel1195
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/14 02:07Per our discussion, I downloaded OZONE 3. I am using it on Pro Tool LE 7, M audio bundle with the MiniBox. No, I didn't buy, yet. I am sufficiently intrique to pick it up, but it can be obtained cheaper at other places than the Izotope's web site. It averages $199, but Izotope wants 249 to buy direct. I found one place that had it for 149.00.
Anyhoo, its a 17.5MB download that took about 35 minutes with a dial up connection. I also downloaded some of the the presets submitted by Ozone users. I queued up one of my thought-I-was-nearly-finished songs and placed ozone on a selected track, the bass to start off with.
1) It was apparent that you have to use different ears in the mastering process. That didn't come as any surprise. 2) The 64 bit process is way cleaner than what i was used to. Again, not a surprise. 3) Using clean effects on a dirty mix is like turning on the light and seeing roaches. There were noises and trash everywhere. With some of the mud removed, I had to go back and clean up the track. 4) It became difficult to mix my new cleaner track with the "untreated" tracks and get a decent sound. 5) The program does a bang-up job with vocals. The is preset called "Vocal treatment" that gives it the treatment for sure. I use a fairly expensive mic, and it made it sound like a had a top dollar preamp to go with it. Did a great job with the bass, and there are a variety of options without tweeking. I used it on a clean guitar track and it made me aware of the limitations of the original sound. It did add some sparkle, but a cheap guitar is also going sound like a cheap guitar.
The flip side: I applied the "treatment" in line as an effect and there was a serious latency issues with the mix. Then, I tried to apply the effect to the track before the mix down and it gave a slow leak on the volume from beginning to end. It started fine, but by the end of the song there were no vocals left. It may be a security feature. I have plenty of processing power. AMD 2.41Ghz with 2 GB of RAM. If it IS a security thing, than I can't mix down like I had in my mind, but I can work with it enough to clean up the mud and make some corrections. I can tell you I'd have been a maniac if I'd have spent 700.00 to find all these errors.
Post edited by: thel1195, at: 2008/07/14 02:12
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thel1195
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/14 03:31OK, I got more. I doesn't seem to work correctly if used as an effect on more than one track. It really drags on the processor. Limit use to that one troublesome little track that just won't act right.
As a mastering tool, I took some songs that were mixed down and place it as the only the effect in the chain and it works just fine and mixed correctly. It sounds amazing if the mixes are in the ballpark of where they need to be. If your mix is blown, this tool can amplify the mess that already exist. I'll post a before and after tomorrow when I have some real band width.
This has been a good experience. I'm happier than the only Rooster on a Hen planet.
Post edited by: thel1195, at: 2008/07/15 01:41
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Lightbox
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/14 14:53thel1195 wrote: Per our discussion, I downloaded OZONE 3. I am using it on Pro Tool LE 7, M audio bundle with the MiniBox. No, I didn't buy, yet. I am sufficiently intrique to pick it up, but it can be obtained cheaper at other places than the Izotope's web site. It averages $199, but Izotope wants 249 to buy direct. I found one place that had it for 149.00. A<br><br>Post edited by: thel1195, at: 2008/07/14 02:12
Where did you see it available for $150? I've been checking out the demo and it is about to expire...
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Lightbox
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/16 17:03Oh I see. It's available in an academic version. Since I have a high school age daughter who is my official engineer (I wish) I guess I qualify for the software at that price.
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thel1195
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/17 04:08Lightbox wrote: Oh I see. It's available in an academic version. Since I have a high school age daughter who is my official engineer (I wish) I guess I qualify for the software at that price.
I noticed that the 2nd time I looked at it. My wife works at a university, so I can get in the back way. I'll tell you, I'm really digging the program, but there is a bit of a learning curve to get that perfect blend.
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Lightbox
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/17 18:27I've really enjoyed the demo too. I've worked with it on three album songs which are almost up to snuff. I've noticed that I am getting into a work flow in which I mix the song, save 24 bit stereo mixdown, open just the stereo mix in a new file, then master with Ozone. At that point I am noticing things in the mix which are too extreme to be fixed by mastering and I go back to the mixing step again and fix just those targeted things. Then I master again. By going back and forth like this I am learning to hear my mixes better. I'll have to buy the program since the demo is over. Then I expect I will actually read the manual and that can't hurt...
Post edited by: Lightbox, at: 2008/07/17 18:28
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thel1195
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/18 01:26Lightbox wrote: I've really enjoyed the demo too. I've worked with it on three album songs which are almost up to snuff. I've noticed that I am getting into a work flow in which I mix the song, save 24 bit stereo mixdown, open just the stereo mix in a new file, then master with Ozone. At that point I am noticing things in the mix which are too extreme to be fixed by mastering and I go back to the mixing step again and fix just those targeted things. Then I master again. By going back and forth like this I am learning to hear my mixes better. I'll have to buy the program since the demo is over. Then I expect I will actually read the manual and that can't hurt...<br><br>Post edited by: Lightbox, at: 2008/07/17 18:28
That's it!! It's a bit of a cop out, because I'm not learning to use the tool to make the corrections, but at the same time, sometimes the mix is not as good as I thought it was. Once I have my ear trained, I be able to get the mix in the right ball park without the back and forth thing. But for now, that seems to be the best plan.
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Lightbox
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/07/18 17:45I've also started to experiment with replacing specific elements of Ozone with other plugins. For instance, instead of using Ozone's reverb, I sent an aux out to an outboard Lexicon reverb and instead of using the Ozone Parametric EQ I used a Waves plugin. The Ozone product gets you up and running really quickly but I suspect that the best master can be had by trying a bit of mix and match, depending on whatever tools might be available. I expect to purchase the non-demo next week since the demo ran out.
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thel1195
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/08/01 09:00Well, I tried some trash can mastering today. I basically used the four band EQ that comes with pro tools in the second effect in the chain. Compression was the first slot using the Stereo Levelor preset. I added gain to get volume right and compressed just enough to knock down the peaks. One the EQ, is used the preset freq's and boosted everything by either .5 up to 1.5 to brighten the sound. It require much. Next in the chain was reverb at 7% follow by Dither since I was moving from 24 bit to 16 bit. It actually turned out well. Not at wide as with Ozone, but respectable.
While I had Ozone, I went through the graphic and presets to get a feel for what it did. Some of it can be done with other things like compressoin and EQ. But some of it requires more. But for us poor people, this was a real break through.
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I downloaded the program and installed it but could not figured how to get it to run. A little help here. I didn't see an icon or even an executible file. Did miss something on the install part?
Oz
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ColinGarvey
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/08/02 17:15Yeah, that confused me when I installed it. You need to run it within a 'host' program - ProTools or Cubase or whatever you're using.
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thel1195
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/08/02 18:29ColinGarvey wrote: Yeah, that confused me when I installed it. You need to run it within a 'host' program - ProTools or Cubase or whatever you're using.
Yep, that's exactly it. Basically, its a plugin. A large eleborate plugin, but a plugin non the less. As mentioned, it will run in Protools and Cubase. I have also used it in Sony's Acid and Sound Forge softwares also. There are a lot of presets and more you can download from the site.
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Lightbox
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/08/02 22:50I got my copy of Ozone via UPS and was able to ditch the demo (which had stopped working and was a little tricky to get rid of). I am using it as a Protools plugin and so far it seems well worth the investment of $125 (academic version). If you want to hear an example of it used as the only plugin on the Master fader for a master, you can go to thesixtyone.com and search Robert Berks. I just posted "Puerto Rico Is Crying" there. It's not perfect but Ozone seemed to blend everything nicely and took harshness out of my vocal part. See what you think. I used the preset "Exciter- 4 band warmth" with a little bit of tweaking. Interested in any comments anyone might have in terms of how that mastering sounds to them, or if they might have done it differently. I've tried "Tube saturation" on other tracks and liked it too.
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Lightbox
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Re:Online mastering - 2008/08/03 16:23mparker wrote: My basic technique is to choose a preset that gets close to what sound I want (there are 100s) and then tweak it a bit. It also has a matching EQ built in, so you can grab the EQ settings off a CD that you'd like your music to sound like and get it to match the EQ between the two as a secondary step.
I just reread this post and noticed the bit about the matching EQ. Now I'll have to read the manual to see how that works. It sounds really useful...
Post edited by: Lightbox, at: 2008/08/03 16:24
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It does include the duplication master with song and album text, and a listening disc. With the cost of duplication, it might as well be a mortgage. But I never got a responce back on my inquiry. If they won't contact me on a sales opportunity, I have to think I will regret sending my music to them. I'll try to find the name and post it.
Did a great job with the bass, and there are a variety of options without tweeking. I used it on a clean guitar track and it made me aware of the limitations of the original sound. It did add some sparkle, but a cheap guitar is also going sound like a cheap guitar. 
