Hmmm, Do you think that is a good idea for a musical project like this? I vote against it (do I get a vote?). Or 1 star for this idea (LOL!).
Kevin cville ramblings
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Kaichi
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 02:21Tagging sounds like a great idea! I hope there's some kind of component available to make it work on this site.
*does double take on Mosfet's post* Wedding invitations?! Are you getting married?
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zumatar
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 03:40man...lots of love....but if you have the time, I challenge you to catagorize my music into a genre...(I can't find one)
.....and yes I meant every note as though it were lycics/poetry to create images--it's not just jamming.... ....I've asked a few this and many have responded, but either way I don't care.....just want the music to exist for those who want it....I can't decide if genre will help that... both RPM 2007 & 2008 albums @ www.virb.com/zumatar
cheers! -William Joshua Wentz wrote: All the subgenres in the world mean nothing if your album does not adhere to a genre as a whole.
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Zumatar, I'll check out your music if you check out mine: http://echoroot.fuzz.com . I'll PM you or something with my take on your music, if you like.
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zumatar
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 03:55ACL wrote: Okay - this will be rushed, as I'm writing this while downing my, uh, dinner at work - please forgive me if it seems that way; but it will also be a long post - so please raid the fridge, grab a snack and something to drink. We just think this is an important topic to discuss - and hey, if after reading this you feel we're full of bull hockey, feel free to say so. We won't be insulted.
This missive is all about Genre - and in no way should this be read as a slap at the fine folks at RPM; they are as much victims of this problem as us musicians.
This is a problem much bigger than RPM - so please don't blame them - but we feel it's a problem we need to address now... and this is the best place we can think of to do it.
Allow me to start this discussion by referencing the 2008 Genre thread:
Joshua Wentz wrote: Well, so much for leaving the genre blank. I just got an email from RPM HQ telling me it's mandatory.
I had to put "alternative". Alternative to what?
I'm very unhappy about that, to be honest. I know it shouldn't bother me, but I'm really sort of offended that we had this awesome creative month and then are forced to place a generic label on it. Buzzkill.
The idea of forcing a gifted musician like Joshua to call himself "alternative" - placing him within a genre with which he shares no affinity - is ridiculous; and calling ACL or Michelangelo "instrumental" & lumping us into the same category as Kenny G (there's no way you'll ever convince me to call Kenny G "jazz") & 101 Strings is beyond ludicrous.
It just doesn't work - in fact, no genre works - and there's one basic overriding reason for that:
We're being forced to reference ourselves to the music of the past.
It's actually quite funny: there have been numerous discussions here about "is music changing?" or "what is the future of music?"
The fact is:
Music Has Already Changed.
And whether anyone consciously realizes it or not, we are all part of a new musical movement.
The same technology that has made RPM possible - the ability to record & produce an album in 28 or 29 days - has also given birth to a new, completely different form of music: one in which an incredibly vast array of instruments, samples & sounds can be and have been repurposed outside the original uses for these resources to create an entirely new music. Those individuals who wish to define music through well-defined, structured sets of rules are now seriously screwed - because those rules no longer apply.
By democratizing the process of recording - anybody with the will to record can now record, without artificial restrictions - people who never thought they could make music are now free to re-imagine music as whatever springs from their hearts and minds.
Sure, it's chaos... and Sturgeon's Rule (90% of everything is sh*t) still applies...
But that's what's good - and revitalizing - about this change. There are no more artificial barriers, unless you want them. (And we're saying this as conservatory-trained musicians - so any intellectuals who wish to state that this is an "obviously uninformed" opinion can go Bite Me.)
The only problem with this new freedom is that these rules changed a long time ago, but much of the mindset behind music - mostly within the commodified music industry - has not.
So, okay - now we're free to create whatever comes out of us... but if you want to post music on RPM, Virb, MySpace or iTunes, you need to place it within a Genre; or if you want to list your album's contents with Gracenote, you need a Genre...
And sadly, this will not change any time soon.
So if we're stuck with a mandated need by outside entities (and/or the needs of the listening public) to be categorized, then it's up to us to create a name for that category - and then spread that name around until it becomes used in everyday conversation.
We are already our own new Genre.
All we need is a Name.
Now this next step is important:
This Name should be a new "umbrella" term - one that is much more loosely defined, due to the many ways we can now use these resources. Our music may sound completely different from one another, but the one thing we all have in common: our ability to re-imagine our combinations of instruments, sounds & rhythms to surprise & entertain the good souls who listen to our music, and to whom it brings joy.
(We can subdivide it later.)
So - to start the ball rolling - here's a term I came up with today:
Re-Gen (for Regenerate)
(This came about through the starting point of No-Gen - short for No Genre - but that reminded me of No Wave; then, New Gen - then there's those dreaded New Wave & New Age labels. Ack.)
Now please note: I'm not wedded to this term - and that's why I'm bringing it up here... to see if we can find a term we can all live with.
We're not naive - this will not be an immediate fix. It's not going to happen for this year's RPM, nor is it going to change tomorrow on iTunes, or any other service. We're facing a fossilized mindset (again, we're NOT talking about RPM - we're talking about a generalized mindset, created to make more efficient marketing), so it's going to take a while to change that mindset.
All we know is that the prevailing "labels" no longer work; and in the face of that fact, we have two options:
• We can sit by passively and continue to be disheartened & marginalized; or,
• We can pro-actively work to do something about it - to reach out to more ears, hearts & minds.
Wendy & I choose the latter. We feel it's time to break down another artificial barrier.
Okay - we've said our peace. Now it's your turn.
Discuss.
Vigorously.
kirk (& wendy), aka acl, aka those troublesome another cultural landslide bozos
P.S. It's odd that JW used the term "buzzkill" in his post... long ago, our first idea for a band name was Captain Bringdown & The Buzzkillers - but then the Simpsons ended up using it in an episode. We really hated losing that one. <br><br>Post edited by: ACL, at: 2008/03/07 10:51
AMEN to this!!!
RPM is the essential D.I.Y. (a term I heard alot in the '80's in a punk band) ...and we only dreamed of recording with the quality almost anyone can have now...
not only that we have a community of folks with something in common: a shared experience/album/custom website (which is asking for imput)
Now is the time to get rid of this marginalization put on us by the "industry/media"... promotion is the only thing standing in the way of folks hearing the music of RPM....we should unify in this....cause we all share in RPM
anyone who gives a shit about music should know about RPM, and if they don't we are the ones who must tell them (no one else will) ...indie labels now have us as formidable compitition for their little starlings (the people should have options not genres or formula music to choose from!)
last year Mick scoured the jukebox for gems and busted ass putting together and promoting every nook of RPM 2007....but aside from a few folks helping he was alone....and not only that when there was anyone here @ the RPM site, there was only like 10-20 folks online(out of 850?!)
....we should unify as a community and promote RPM together, then genre or not people will know about all this great music and thus have the option of listening...
cheers -William
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1. Again, I wasn't speaking about RPM in particular; as Joshua has written, the issue of Genre is much bigger than that.
2. Tagging would also be a fine alternative; but as far as I knew, very few major services were adopting it. Has this changed?
Which brings up:
3. We, like Joshua, really hate classifying music (or films, or books) by Genres.
4. So why if we hate genres so much would we suggest building a new one?
Because if this genre was in fact a large umbrella genre, it would:
- allow the musician to state - with the use of a single positive term - that they're proud that their work doesn't fit within any conventional genre...
- and it would identify a wide new category of music that would allow the adventurous listener to explore each artist as an individual, without the stigma of "other" attached to the music.
Think marketing, y'all. It's not an evil word - it's just been used in an evil manner in the past.
As an independent musician, you need to connect with ears; and let's be honest, there are categories most of you won't even explore consciously due to the label attached to them - and sometimes it's subconsciously a way for your brain to cut down on the overload of information available to it. In doing so, you may be missing some seriously excellent music available to you, simply because it's been categorized in an inaccurate manner.
By purposely identifying your music in this manner, you would attract active, not passive, listeners - all looking to engage in something new, something that they're not going to find within the standard realms.
These listeners would be seeking you out - and not the other way around.
5. This is an important one.
When I was speaking of creating an over-riding new Genre, I wasn't speaking of applying it to Everyone; that's just plain insane. Instead, it would provide a new option for those musicians who didn't feel at home with their current choices. There are many folks who feel at home with the current choices. This is for genre-spanning artists to help attract attention to their work.
Our point is this:
Musicians who want to do something different musically need better ways to connect with their prospective audiences. Genres get in the way of that - so instead, by creating a new genre that is dedicated to crossing genres, and identifying it in a positive manner, you can get ahead of the curve and set the trends, instead of being invisible to the audience and always trailing behind them, hoping they'll notice you're there.
It's about positioning yourself for the future. Do you want to lead, or follow?
If we want our music to be available to a larger audience through mainstream sources or services, those outlets are going to want genres attached to the music we submit - therefore it only goes to the point that we need to be in control of the genre issue, or it will forever be in control of us.
Again, if this sounds hair-brained, so be it. It just makes better sense to us that the current alternatives.
Finally...
Mosfet - you're getting married??? And if so, are you scoring your wedding? Will the aliens be in attendance? Inquiring minds, etc.
Back to the grind (two more days of it... argh)
kirk (& wendy), aka acl
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Kaichi
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 04:15zumatar wrote: ...last year Mick scoured the jukebox for gems and busted ass putting together and promoting every nook of RPM 2007....but aside from a few folks helping he was alone....and not only that when there was anyone here @ the RPM site, there was only like 10-20 folks online(out of 850?!)
....we should unify as a community and promote RPM together, then genre or not people will know about all this great music and thus have the option of listening...
I read somewhere that only a small portion of any group (I believe the percentage they used was 1-2% of the total) will be active in the community. It's sad, but that's how it seems to work out, even here. The ones who will be active and try to do things in and for the community are the ones who are already doing it, and most of their names are attached to posts in these forums. Even out of the 20 or so who may be online at any given time, how many of those are posting in the forums and participating in these discussions? There's no way to know whether or not they are doing anything outside of this site to help promote it, but chances are, they aren't.
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Echo Root
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 04:36Here's the problem with your theory, ACL... the industry will bastardize anything we come up with. If you come up with something that sells albums, it will be exploited.
There was an article in this month's Seattle Sound magazine by Mark Baumgarten called Indie Rock Must Die that illustrates my point. "Indie Rock" was originally a social statement setting these DIY bands apart from the majority of bands who were seeking popular acceptance. Now every friggin band out there is indie rock, because the industry figured out quickly that "indie rock" sells. It's no more a genre now than "new and improved" is a feature list... it's all marketing. And if you did manage to come up with some new uber genre for only the cool people, they'd screw that up pretty quickly as well.
My $.02
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Mosfet
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 05:16I actually very well may have aliens at my wedding... or at least I'll arrange a UFO flyby and have some cardboard cutout standees of Mulder and Scully on either side of the alter.
AND... as I never really chimed in about genre.. I had to invent my own, and was able to for the 2006 jukebox.. it was something like 'darkwave-electrobeat-ambient-funcore' which seemed to fit pretty well...
I just read some re-post of Josh W feeling slighted by the 'mandatory' genre selection from the RPM HQ.
The reason this is the case is that they are attempting to create genre-based playlists for the various listening parties... they will have music in rotating blocks of genres throughout the evening...
The volunteers of this initiative most likely don't know anything about these boards and don't read them as they are busy loading all 720+ CDs into iTunes.. like round the clock.. So they don't know this kind of philosophical discussion is waging over here in our land.
SOOO.. that stated, pretty soon - when you edit your Album info in the 2008 Jukebox when it's rolled out.. you can mark your songs as 'unclassifiable' or we can add ACL's new mysterious 'catch-basin' genre.
Sorry if I sound pissy.. I'm not.. just way tired and a little drunk..
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uncledig
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 05:38first let me say that I really *love* what ACL is doing musically. beyond that, kirk and wendy seem like VERY nice people. so please don't take my response personally.
i'm also a proponent of innovation. my professional career has been built on it, so i consider myself reasonably well versed in the subject.
all of that said, i think that creating new/more/different genre classifications for your music is a mistake.
genres are not for musicians/artists. they are for consumers. they help consumers make reasonable associations that lead them to try new things. if they try new things at all. which is not a common characteristic of the avg. music consumer, unfortunately.
it's pretty well established that you'll at least get more "eyeballs" if you keep the genre tagged to your music at a very high level. ie, more people will give it a look if it's just "Rock" vs. "Alternative Southern Rock" or "Electro Indie Pop New Wave Rock". that's a fact, and music marketers know this.
if it makes you feel better to tag your music with either a complex sub genre tag, a "new" genre tag, or even more severe - no genre tag at all - then more power to you. but don't expect that to *increase* your exposure. plan for it to decrease your exposure.
the facts are that overall "demand" for music is dropping - steeply in the US, and generally across the world. that may seem counter to each of our own experiences, but thems also the facts. consumers of music are also getting *less* sophisticated in the way they find new music - not more sophisticated. this is likely due to the information flooding that occurs on the internet and in the media. most consumers want new music to come to them, not search it out. witness the success of services which do this - Pandora, last.fm, etc.
of course, all of this might be a moot point if you're not seriously trying to succeed in the larger marketplace. it might be just fine for you to tag your music with compound-sub-genre-descriptions-from-hell, or to tag it with a "new" genre name intended to imply genre-less music. but if you really want to maximize your exposure, you need to find a simple way to tap into the well established method that consumers and the channels that feed them operate.
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I definilty should have fixed more mistakes then... crud.
On Genre and the like:
For one, I don't mind my music being labeled. Some people need those, it makes them feel comfortable. I don't particulary look by genre either online or in a record store. I hear a tune I like, and I buy it. Either I hear it from a friend, or just randomly somewhere like in the background of a youtube video.
Heck, this year, I found a whole lot of music I would never have sought out that I really like via RPM... someone would post, I would go to their profile and have a listen. Some wasn't for me, some was. That was the cool thing to me about RPM; I could listen to a much wider scope of music than I could find most other places. Sometimes I would have to go listen to a track just because the author was entertaining, or the title caught my eye, or their pic happened to scroll by in the bar at the bottom and I just had to find out what went with that pic.
Great system, not really genre tagged.
Case in point... I really do not consider myself any sort of fan of what is commonly refered to as "country" music. Oh sure, I dig Johnny Cash, but the label country to me sadly harkens back to my growing up in the 80's as a metal kid, and country was a swear word. Browsing about in the above mentioned fashion, I found Kai Starr's "Down on the Brazos". That song was a major earworm for me, and I found myself wandering around singing it... huh! It sort of falls into that countrified blues catagory, and wouldn't have been something I found by looking at tags.
So, I guess what I am trying to say is this:
Label it to market for those people who only search by genre, to make them happy and find your work, but don't feel limited by it yourself. You never know how someone might find your work and take a liking to it. I guess a lot of it will depend on how much you really want to market your work.
Personally, I did RPM for my own entertainment, and if no one else finds it, that's ok too. I enjoyed doing the album this year, and I am already looking foreward to next year. If some major label wants to throw a ton of money at me to release it (and they would have to be crazy to do so), I will cross that bridge when that time comes and decide on a better label for what my music is then.
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Shagbark
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 08:35Echo Root wrote: Here's the problem with your theory, ACL... the industry will bastardize anything we come up with. If you come up with something that sells albums, it will be exploited.
I wish a record company would exploit me just for a little while.
Post edited by: Shagbark, at: 2008/03/08 08:36
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No!! iTunes is the software that RPM is using to import the received Cds into the jukebox, and enter the mp3 tags and so on. The iTunes Store is something else. Related (ie Apple designed) but different.
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Kaichi
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 12:41IronAngel Forge wrote: Case in point... I really do not consider myself any sort of fan of what is commonly refered to as "country" music. Oh sure, I dig Johnny Cash, but the label country to me sadly harkens back to my growing up in the 80's as a metal kid, and country was a swear word. Browsing about in the above mentioned fashion, I found Kai Starr's "Down on the Brazos". That song was a major earworm for me, and I found myself wandering around singing it... huh! It sort of falls into that countrified blues catagory, and wouldn't have been something I found by looking at tags.
I've always wanted to produce an earworm song. You have helped me reach a DREAM, man!
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No!! iTunes is the software that RPM is using to import the received Cds into the jukebox, and enter the mp3 tags and so on. The iTunes Store is something else. Related (ie Apple designed) but different.
Thanks for the support on clarification here! Yeah.. iTunes is simply the platform for organizing all y'alls MP3s.. they've got like 10 or so different computers ripping stacks of CDs.. into various iTunes library files.. then we collapse them all into one.. and THEN we import them into the MySQL Database that sits behind ye-old jukebox..
THEN - funny enough.. we will give you guys the ability to go monketymuch with the album and track data..
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The reason this is the case is that they are attempting to create genre-based playlists for the various listening parties... they will have music in rotating blocks of genres throughout the evening..
Why? Why genre classify for the party? How is that a good idea?
Hey, everyone! Congrats on making this amazingly creative music... now, let's listen to it in genre blocks so that we segregate everyone! Oh, and make sure that you're at the party during the block of music that you "like best".
Nah, this is exactly the opposite of what we should be doing, and exactly the reason why forcing music into a truncated genre list won't work. Are people really planning on having "genre-based" parties for RPM? I thought the idea was bringing everyone together, not splitting them apart.
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Gumbo
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 17:01I must say (in my best english accent) that part of the fun of listening to the radio last year was having no idea what on earth might turn up next.
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Mosfet
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 17:14Well I have to say that I'm not that passionate about it being a problem. I don't have any real boundaries with my musical taste and always have despised the notion of categorically saying that ALL OF ONE KIND of music SUCKS.. because it is absolutely not true.
Having DJd college radio for 6 years I found even my 'genre' based specialty shows were more diverse than not.. It's amazing what you can do with an 20,000 records to choose from to fill a 3 hr ambient show.
But the situation is this... RPM's core focus IS to bring together the divergent groups involved.. because so many venues for such gatherings are genre based Such as folk festivals, jazz festivals, industrial festivals, shoegazer festivals.. raves.. - and all their online community counterparts.. yeah you get it).
So we're essentially an Online Genre Agnostic Festival of Musical Creativity... and that is a great thing. The Jukebox will be our stage..
So... how to bring that to the masses in an external venue scenario.. and attempting to draw in the participation of non-participants.. THE ALREADY APATHETIC AND SHEEPISH MASSES... well.. you break up the party into different kinds of venues with different kinds of vibes... You set a particular THEME (not genre) for each.. and then you blend the Genres there into blocks. 1. RPMers in attendence get to HEAR and MEET fellow RPMers of their own style.. which I found to be tremendously beneficial to me.. I met many new electronic music people through RPM and if it hadn't have been for the genre blocks at the Listening Parties I wouldn't have met them as there were 4 venuse playing 4-6 blocks of music. each.. SO it helped focus your efforts
2. The MASSES of such in the area.. interested in attending had to somehow guage their interest levels in attending. People are inherently grouping/category oriented... you know going grocery shopping would be much more difficult if everything was blended by some other non-genre specific Grouping - Imagine if you walked into the 'green' isle and it was all the 'green colored prodcuts' Palmolive next to Watermellons next to Heinekin. - I think it'd be cool.. but the general consumer would probably not latch on to the randomness of the experience..
BUT then again.. what evs' right? Off to wedding invite world..
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strummindude
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 17:30IronAngel Forge wrote: Label it to market for those people who only search by genre, to make them happy and find your work, but don't feel limited by it yourself. You never know how someone might find your work and take a liking to it. I guess a lot of it will depend on how much you really want to market your work.
I agree. I'd just like to add that attaching a genre label to your music could, or maybe even should, be considered a statement by the artist as to how that particular genre is supposed to sound. What its essence is.
There are no dictionaries defining the boundaries of any particular genre. And, thus, feeling limited by a concept that essentially has no substance outside of private imagination and prejudice, seems a bit stupid.
S. Dude
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 17:44There are no dictionaries defining the boundaries of any particular genre. And, thus, feeling limited by a concept that essentially has no substance outside of private imagination and prejudice, seems a bit stupid.
Actually, there are plenty of dictionaries that define the boundaries of all genres. Books dedicated to these specificities. And of course there's always Wikipedia
If it were a matter of "private imagination" there would be no discussion on this board about it. I don't believe that discussing the idea and consequences of label to be stupid, either.
But part of what you're positing, the element of subjectivity, is why the classification of any art is flawed.
I'm suggesting that having the option to do away with a flawed system would do everyone good. I'm not saying that Buddy Guy isn't blues or that he is worse off for agreeing that he is.
It is NOT wrong for a rock band to call themselves rock. It IS wrong to force a band who is not classified by one of your ten options to choose one to make YOUR life easier.
Post edited by: Joshua Wentz, at: 2008/03/08 17:57
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strummindude
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/08 23:54Joshua Wentz wrote: If it were a matter of "private imagination" there would be no discussion on this board about it. I don't believe that discussing the idea and consequences of label to be stupid, either.
I didn't mean to say quite that, and I'm sorry if you took offense. But will you agree with me that you, we all, are a part of defining those labels?
It is NOT wrong for a rock band to call themselves rock. It IS wrong to force a band who is not classified by one of your ten options to choose one to make YOUR life easier.
I hear what you're saying, and I don't entirely agree. It is of course, in principle, wrong to force an artist into anything. But you'd like your music to be heard, don't you? We all do. It's all about the price we're willing to pay, the compromises towards our uncompromising art making we're willing to make, to make our stuff seen, loved and hated by other human beings. (Preferably loved, though.)
Call me a cynic. But to make a few concessions and accept the way things work in the real word outside my studio, I find is a pretty small price to pay if it means a bigger audience for me. I owe it to my music to use the tools available to the best of my ability, however unfit for the job they may be. I would do my stuff a great disservice by waging war on the tools. However, discussion is great, and conflict is the mother of all progress.
Again, I didn't mean for anyone to take offense by what I wrote, and I'm sorry if you did.
S. Dude
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Echo Root
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/09 00:06Mosfet, dude, from now on when I have to choose a genre, I'm going with "agnostic" - that's brilliant.
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Eschertron
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/09 00:13Joshua Wentz wrote: But part of what you're positing, the element of subjectivity, is why the classification of any art is flawed.
I must preface my two cents' worth by saying that I'm not blaming the RPM staff for causing any of this confusion... they are as much victims of it as the musicians are. Having said that, however:
GENRE: from Miriam-Webster -- a category of artistic, musical, or literary composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content
The current system of classification is critically flawed, as many of the categories for our choosing are absolutely - by definition - not genres; for example 'holiday', 'religious', and the odious catch-all 'instrumental'. There's plenty of religious music that is Rock, plenty more Jazz, and very much is Common-practice orchestral (not an accepted genre label that I know of, but 'classical' is not a genre). I could continue to pick at our choices, but as I said, I don't blame RPM for the mess we're in. Even POP is not a genre, it is a chrono-economic classification that indicates that the music is new and written to appeal to a broad audience. Music that was popular in the fifties is no longer new, so it doesn't appear in today's 'pop' bins.
I agree with the posters that argue we should be looking at the broad labels that can be used to describe (if not all, then) most of our output. Jazz, Rock, Folk, etc. Too vague? Not descriptive enough? Hey, it's a place to start. There needs to be some kind of classification (mentioned was the scientist's taxonomic system of nomenclature) that is in common usage, uses commonly-agreed upon labels, and is simple enough to add subcategories to. Does it exist?
Can we reduce the amount of subjectivity in our classification scheme? I think we do that by paring down the existing labels before adding new ones.
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Aw.. I got all excited. And scared! My input this year was not quite ready for prime time color tv and all that.
I dig the idea that an artist could classify their music as what they think the genre should sound like. The up to no goodnik jerk in me wants to put my screaming 80's hair metal in easy listening.... but I will behave for the time being. Maybe.
I also think I should put my bad jazz piano excursions under rap, as most of the vocals are spoken... hmm.
I probably require adult supervision.
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If you think your music could be heard and understood by any generally open-minded dude, and you're not writing for the academic establishment, just call it pop. That should be broad enough to cover anything you're doing, unless you're the next Cage or Stockhausen (in that case, ironically, you probably have to choose "Classical"). If you think one of the other terms fairly covers the essence of your music pick that.
So there's lot of music called pop that's pretty vapid. Who cares? So most music called pop adheres to traditional western song structures. Not all of it does, and it certainly doesn't have to. Not all classical music (in the original meaning of mostly-18th century music looking for clarity and beauty in simple structures influenced by classical Greek proportions, and distinguished from earlier "baroque" music, which was criticized for being, well, baroque) is rondos and sonatas.
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Joshua Wentz
User Platinum Boarder
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/09 06:59If you think your music could be heard and understood by any generally open-minded dude, and you're not writing for the academic establishment, just call it pop
If everything is "pop", why have any other genres?
Genre = pointless.
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uncledig
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/09 07:08if genre assignment = pointless, your point must not be exposure to new listeners. which is fine. if your "artistic integrity" is more important than exposure to new ears, accept the trade off you've made.
but stop trying to convince yourself that more than .001% of the population cares about this issue. they just want to hear something that sounds like <insert iTunes genre search here>.
Post edited by: uncledig, at: 2008/03/09 07:08
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nyarlathotep
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Re:A possible solution to Genre. Or not. - 2008/03/09 07:12I think the whole genre thing is a bit simpler than some are making it out to be. From the definition, a genre is characterized by a specific element -- i.e. metal is characterized by distorted guitars and minor tonality, etc.
So, if your music isn't characterized by a specific element, then no genre is going to fit your album -- end of story
I think artist-defined tags would a pretty good solution to the problem, but I see no reason to altogether remove Genre from the classification. I had no compunction whatsoever towards tossing my mostly-metal, yet part-synth, part-clean-amplification album under the "metal" genre, since I've always thought of my music as 'metal' (IronAngel, if you think it was hard growing up as an 80s metal kid in the 80s, try growing up as an 80s metal kid in the new millennium ^^).
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This argument is all about identity, specifically, musical-identity. Briefly, the idea of identity has 2 parts: how we identify ourselves and how others identify us. This is a biological holdover from "is he from our tribe or a stranger [and therefore a threat]. In our modern world, this can be translated as "would I like this girl's music or not? I mean, I prefer Jane Siberry to Tori Amos, and I love Kate Bush, but am ambivalent to Fiona Apple and she's a woman at a piano, so..."
Genres, while a pain-in-the-tuckus, are a necessary evil because it is how other percieve and concieve of us as individuals (and by extension, our music) that is more important than how we define ourselves.
A straw poll of my friends reveals that I am "electronica - beat driven." Great, its still different from other other bands who would classified the same, but I am in good company and have no qualms with others identifying my work as such.
No argument from me about picking a genre: what I think of it is less relevant than how others hear it.
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