Carpentron
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment album - 2008/03/04 01:22
Well, my wife once submitted some written work to this very cool quarterly release, and the certain person who puts it together forgot to include her work. I wonder whatever became of that guy...
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment album - 2008/03/04 02:25
As legend tells it, that gentleman reissued his publication, making sure to include the forgotten work...
Such is the magic of time, the ability to rectify one's mistakes. 
Which reminds me... I probably have some more mistakes to go and fix right now...
Post edited by: Joshua Wentz, at: 2008/03/04 02:29
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clique
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment album - 2008/03/04 04:56
Yeah, it feels kind of rotten. Fortunately, some things in life can be undone. Well, sort of.
Speaking of which, I've got a bit of rectification by the name of "clique-i: mix the seventh" to...um...mix.
- John
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clique
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album cover for clique-i - 2008/03/04 18:09
I'm reposting this here in case you cliquesters missed it:
Joshua Wentz wrote:
clique-i cover is awesome.
When Mr. Sidedown tells you your cover is awesome, you know that it must be.
It's tough to photograph it, actually, due to the nature of the paper it's made out of. So, a gallery of images (thanks to Kate) will have to do:
clique here
The cover was made by cutting "clique" out of the top layer of NielsenBainbridge's "Brushed Onyx/Sable Core" Alphamat. It's got this cool surface that looks sort of like a vinyl record: a little shiny with fine grooves that just go straight instead of 'round and around. But under that top layer is fuzzy/cottony dark gray paper, which in contrast to the surface is especially flat. It looks very cool in person.
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Lunarsight
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment album - 2008/03/06 06:31
This is really well done. The mixing is fantastic.. I like how each track has its own unique vibe to it..
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clique
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clique-i: a musical experiment album - 2008/03/07 00:52
Thanks for the positive feedback, everyone. I'm actually a bit surprised at how well this turned out. The nature of the clique process goes hand in hand with entropy, and with what little power I gave myself to direct its outcome towards concinnity, it felt a bit like trying to pull a plummeting airliner out of a nosedive.
Today I finally had a listen to the mixes for the first time since I was actually mixing them: pretty good, but certainly room for improvement, as always.
One thing I'd really be interested in hearing is some negative feedback. I mean, not like "u suk dood," but constructive critique would be very interesting and helpful to hear. So lay it on me! Where did I go wrong? Or perhaps: what is inherently flawed with clique-i that prevented it from being really great?
Surely it's not that out of the park, right?
Once again, the mixes which (so far) comprise clique-i can all be found here:
composerlink.org/clique
Post edited by: clique, at: 2008/03/07 01:50
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment album - 2008/03/07 01:50
It's hard to say if something "went wrong" yet in the process, but my main criticism was that the base track that I received was too complex to really riff off of. I'm not a musical genius, so it was hard for me to pick up on whether there was any key, progression, or even solid tempo to build on. It was a touch frantic for my tastes, but that's probably because my creative process is to start low and go high.
Obviously, listening to the end result, not everyone had this problem... or some people chose to sort of ignore the base tracks manic posture and simply beat it into submission with their guitars, keyboards, what have you.
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mpedone
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment album - 2008/03/07 02:42
I have to say that I was a little bit thrilled to start the 6th mix and hear my own meager contribution mixed in with some great artists. Thanks for the opportunity, John! 
I think that if I participated again, I would request a simpler track, much like Mr. Wentz. I would also want to have a little more time. For me, though, those were problems on my end, not with the way the project was set up.
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tatt2wand
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment album - 2008/03/07 04:35
I did my best to engender a Benny Hill (co-opted by SNL) theme on the discussion board. This will be my last attempt at low brow humour. Did you say a musical experimental bum? reference musical bum, anal bum cover, bums in general, bum
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clique
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clique-i: a musical experiment - 2008/03/07 18:49
A fascinating aspect of the clique process, to me, is the incredibly complex relationships between so many variables which stack up and synergize, bringing the project through a long series of unpredictable stages, and ultimately to a terribly unique and fresh outcome. When one person sets out create their own album, envisioning what the album will be like before it even starts can reasonably be guessed at.
This isn't a bad thing. It's just a thing.
But the more people you add to the mix, the less predictable it becomes. But even if I'd run clique in such a way that more direction was given (such as, "okay, now you add a guitar part to the verses,") you'd have some clues.
But what I chose to send to whom--and without direction--meant that I couldn't really guess at what would come back. Now, to both Mr. Wentz and Matt (mpedone/Broken Robot Factory), one part of me regrets having given you something that you found difficult to work with. (And by the way, you each got something completely different as a reference clique track.) I suppose this meant it was less fun for you than it could have been, and that I fully regret. In the future, I'll be giving people the option to reject the track I send them and opt for a different one.
But since you and everyone else did just go through with what I gave out, I can only hope that you found it at least a bit educational. Just think how you would have never created the clique track you did without being put to the challenge of coming up with something to go with what you were given. You worked outside your comfort-zones. And in the end, I think clique was better for it. Perhaps the mixes which comrpise clique-i might have been more to your liking otherwise, but I think the process was more interesting this way.
Anyway, a balance should eventually be found. This does need to be fun, in the end.
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment - 2008/03/07 19:01
Anyway, a balance should eventually be found. This does need to be fun, in the end.
Agreed. I will admit that despite the end-result being completely awesome, the project was much less fun for me because I felt incredibly confounded and constrained by the base track I was given. If the project develops into something where there is more time for a back and forth between participants, it will only become more balanced. I imagine that would easily be the case.
Post edited by: Joshua Wentz, at: 2008/03/07 19:01
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clique
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment - 2008/03/07 19:47
My brain starts to overheat when I think about all the variations clique could manifest and spin-offs it could spawn. It's all I can do to not. Among other things, I'd like to eventually seek out other cliquesters to be clique-masters of their own cliques (and just like each clique project I start, the initial track will be a track from a previous clique so that ultimately all cliques will be related.)
But one of the things I got to learn (or really, was merely reminded of) is just how differently we each perceive art. I certainly wouldn't have sent Josh "proto-clique" if I thought there was too little room in which to work. To me, there's lots of stuff that could be done to it. To me, it's a near-perfect starting point because it's minimal, provides tempo without mandating a rhythm, suggests some tonality without nailing down a key, tosses out some melody ideas without forming rigid melodies, and is fairly stable without being stagnant. I think something more fleshed-out would be limiting and more bare would be too open-ended.
However, I am clearly the only one who saw "proto-clique" that way. And to me, that's actually cool.
I sent Chris Torgersen (Carpentron) the same track, and although he expressed similar problems of finding it hard to work with, he came back with "strussenbaumer-clique" which was immensely different than Josh's "jinn-clique." And "strussenbaumer-clique" actually worked very well with that track despite. However, "jinn-clique" did something even more fascinating: it worked even better with some other clique tracks that he never heard than it did with "proto-clique." And this is just a small taste of the interesting relationships between all the clique tracks.
Now then, I'm off to go dunk my cranium in a bucket of ice water.
Post edited by: clique, at: 2008/03/07 19:52
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment - 2008/03/07 19:54
To me, it's a near-perfect starting point because it's minimal, provides tempo without mandating a rhythm, suggests some tonality without nailing down a key, tosses out some melody ideas without forming rigid melodies, and is fairly stable without being stagnant. I think something more fleshed-out would be limiting and more bare would be too open-ended.
You're exactly right, it's a matter of perception. I'm not averse to working out of my comfort zone. It's not always pleasant, but it's not unwelcome.
It was the combination of those elements you mention that did it in for me. The tonality combined with the tempo felt manic and random. Listening to it more, I can start to glean the foundation, but this is after weeks of listening, really.
I could have done more with either/or. I certainly wouldn't want a blank canvas, but the first thing I thought listening to "proto-clique" was "this canvas is almost full."
Post edited by: Joshua Wentz, at: 2008/03/07 19:57
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clique
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clique-i: a musical experiment - 2008/03/07 20:18
the first thing I thought listening to "proto-clique" was "this canvas is almost full."
This coming from the guy whose avatar is rendered in just a couple different shades of two different colors is no surprise. My own avatar notwithstanding (since it was created by Josh!), I'm the sort who likes to cram as much color into as small a space as possible. Okay, that's a gross generalization, but it highlights the difference in perspective. To me, "proto-clique" looks like a nice canvas on which to paint something really terrific.
The difference in our POVs and aesthetics (not just mine and Josh's but between cliquesters) is another part of what makes clique interesting to me. Typically, a collaboration will happen between people who feel they have something in common, stylistically. But clique kind of removes that barrier. The only thing cliquesters have in common is a willingness to independently collaborate. Once again, this makes the clique sound pretty unique and inimitable.
Or so I say.
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mpedone
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment - 2008/03/07 22:34
clique wrote:
one part of me regrets having given you something that you found difficult to work with. (And by the way, you each got something completely different as a reference clique track.) I suppose this meant it was less fun for you than it could have been, and that I fully regret. In the future, I'll be giving people the option to reject the track I send them and opt for a different one.
The only thing I would have changed about my experience was the time - I'd like to be able to go back into February and sign on earlier in the month to have more time to work with. The track was challenging to work with, but I enjoyed that challenge - it made it fun.
I would probably still request a simpler track if there is a next time, but I suppose what that means that's a matter of perception, and I wouldn't reject whatever I was sent. As you said, clique is a different kind of collaboration that forces people to collaborate and work in a way that they are not used to - out of their comfort zone, as Josh put it. I think that's a good thing.
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clique
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment - 2008/03/07 22:49
Regarding time, I would say that was function of the RPM Challenge, not of clique. I would imagine that rarely would time be an issue with clique. Though it might be fun from time to time, given enough cliquesters interested, of having a clique-a-thon. There could be a timetable and each cliquester would have a slot. Each would have a fixed amount of time to create their track and have it passed on to the next person. That could be loads of fun! If enough international (and night-owl) types got involved it could run around the clock. Maybe it could be called speed-clique or clique-be-quick. Yeah, I like that.
But I digress. Time wouldn't be a normal factor for most clique projects, I think. That is, at least until RPM '09 comes around again.
I also think that having the option to reject your given track and get a new one should be an option. Depending on the nature of the relevant clique project, a limit would have to be placed, of course. Probably only one or two rejections. But this way, you can choose whether you'd like to work with a clique track that you find agreeable or just throw yourself into the challenge of working with something you can't get a handle on.
Okay, again with the overheating brain. Must stop now.
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clique
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clique-i: mix the seventh - 2008/03/23 05:09
Six mixes?
Did I say six mixes?
I meant seven.
Seven mixes comprise clique-i, hence "clique-i: mix the seventh."
See? composerlink.org/clique
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Lunarsight
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment - 2008/03/23 06:05
clique wrote:
Regarding time, I would say that was function of the RPM Challenge, not of clique. I would imagine that rarely would time be an issue with clique. Though it might be fun from time to time, given enough cliquesters interested, of having a clique-a-thon. There could be a timetable and each cliquester would have a slot. Each would have a fixed amount of time to create their track and have it passed on to the next person. That could be loads of fun! If enough international (and night-owl) types got involved it could run around the clock. Maybe it could be called speed-clique or clique-be-quick. Yeah, I like that.
I would love to try something like this again [apart from the RPM Challenge].
I thought the RPM Challenge kind of prevented me from giving the Clique track enough attention. I wasn't really that happy with what I created for it, for the most part..
I had technical problems around the end of the month, so I didn't really have as much time to put towards Clique as I would have liked to.
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clique
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Re:clique-i: a musical experiment - 2008/03/23 06:19
Rest assured, Lunarsight (and any other would-be cliquesters), there will be more cliquing in the future. In the meantime, if anyone would like to create a clique track to the current lot, let me know.
You've got all the time in the world, now!
And there's no telling how or when it would "show up," but it will be incorporated somehow. For all we know, it'll be the launching point for a new clique project, much in the same way that "proto-clique" was for clique-i.
Post edited by: clique, at: 2008/04/12 15:24
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