Is it cheating? - 2008/01/11 00:10My idea about RPM was that you record an album in February. I've started to DEMO ideas that will become the songs that I will record in February, as I found that last year I spent too long on words and not enough time on the recording/mixing process.
this isn't cheating is it?
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• Recording can only be done in the month of February – no prerecorded songs.
• All material must be previously unreleased, and we encourage you to write the material during February too.
personally I think you are competing with yourself so only you can decide what cheating would be.
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tuesday
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/11 00:29This is what is says in the "official" challenge instructions/guidelines:
"• Recording can only be done in the month of February – no prerecorded songs.
• All material must be previously unreleased, and we encourage you to write the material during February too."
Since it just says, "we encourage you to write" it all in February, I don't think it's cheating if you start writing ideas out now....especially lyrics. Lyrics tripped me up last year and a couple songs suffered for it.
I have a better understanding and idea of what I'm doing this year though. So I'm going to try to record AND write everything in February. It's how I roll.
We all have different goals in participating. I'm working on my songwriting, for example, not so much the quality of recording or mixing (that can come after Feb for me). It sounds like you want to spend more time on quality of sound and recording.
long story short, in my opinion it wouldn't be cheating as long as it's all recorded in February. Good luck!
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tfrooney
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/11 00:35I agree that "cheating" is up to the individual to define.
I intend to "write" songs in the coming days as well as to use snippets and ideas I've collected over time. I also intend to "write" drum and bass parts via MIDI. Sort of a gray area between writing and recording. I also intend to write another CSound song. There isn't ANY recording involved with that one. Just compiling. I'm not going to define any of that cheating for myself.
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/11 00:42In my opinion, it's only cheating if you FEEL like you're cheating!
Since RPM is about doing something constructive and inspiring for yourself, it's up to you to decide what you're going to do. Know your limits. If writing down ideas and lyrics now will help you to actually HAVE FUN when you're recording, then it seems to me that's the best way to go.
Frankly, unless you're Bono and you're trying to pass off "One" as a song you wrote in February, no one is going to call you on anything you do, except for that little angel sitting on your shoulder.
Or this guy:
I'm not doing a lick of work until 12:01 am, February 1. That's just me.
Post edited by: kenohki55, at: 2008/01/11 02:34
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tangmo
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/11 01:44Man to man, I'd just put it this way:
If it was me? It might be cheating. I typically write songs on acoustic, and if all I wanted to do was record ten already-written songs with acoustic and vocals, I could do it in a couple of days. Might still be within the 'rules', but not much of a challenge. To me, it's about being creative in a compressed period of time with a deadline.
If your creative process involves other instruments, arrangements, collaborators, etc then I personally wouldn't consider it cheating because 'the song' is just the jumping off point for what you really do. I hope that makes sense.
Having done it last year, you know what was of value to you. It may not be the same thing that was valuable to me, but if you 'record it in 29 days' even ignoring the further challenge of writing it in the same time period, you ain't breakin' no rules.
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NOTRATSMOLES
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/11 01:46it's only cheating if your wife catches you in bed with a tranny whore...from experience, let me tell you it was worth it....save the shingles....
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ThePros
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/11 01:51To me the most important thing is that the songs be previously unreleased and the versions that are submitted be recorded entirely in February of 2008. But that's just me.
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chrisflew
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/12 20:55artwhore wrote: My idea about RPM was that you record an album in February. I've started to DEMO ideas that will become the songs that I will record in February, as I found that last year I spent too long on words and not enough time on the recording/mixing process.
this isn't cheating is it?
as long as you don't use any of the stuff you record for the demos (ie, the recordings of things, not what you've written) and you don't put them out anywhere else in the meantime, it fits the rules.
i put on a couple of things last year that were pre-written but started all my recordings during the month and nothing was prereleased.
this year, i'm doing it all within the month and aiming for a song a day.
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Lunarsight
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/12 21:24It's kind of a grey area. I'm personally a real extremist about this. I try not to even write lyrics until February. (Although, I do have some general ideas in my head.)
I'm even reluctant to use prerecorded Jeskola Buzz machines for synthesizer generation and effects. Last year, I built all my Buzz setups in February.
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Gumbo
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/12 21:51Lunarsight wrote: (Although, I do have some general ideas in my head.
NO!! That's Cheating. You're not allowed any ideas for two weeks yet!! Get them out of there ...
(just kidding )
-
Post edited by: Gumbo, at: 2008/01/12 21:52
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Lunarsight
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/13 01:53Gumbo wrote: [NO!! That's Cheating. You're not allowed any ideas for two weeks yet!! Get them out of there ...
Oh, okay - Let me get out my home lobotomy kit..
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KevinEmmrich
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/13 16:24In my opinion, it's only cheating if you FEEL like you're cheating!
That's a good quote! Last year I wrote all the lyrics in February and of course recorded all of my vocals and guitar work in February. I used a lot of backing tracks last year (recorded by others) and most of them were also recorded in February. But I did use 6 backing tracks from Guitar Center's King of the Blues contest. Now I didn't find these backing tracks until February, although I am sure they were recorded before February.
This year I have written 17-20 songs from march until now. I have recorded most of these songs and demo'd them at soundclick for folks at a couple of forums to listen to and critique. My plan is to incorporate as many improvements as possible and do all of my parts in February (and of course add new parts to make them complete songs). Probably will tweak the lyrics and maybe I will write a few more (FAWM.org is going on, too). Some of the current backing tracks will be re-done, but some can't be since I don't control that part of it..
Now, does that mean these songs have been "pre-released"? I am using the definition that released means more than just putting demos up. The only "released" stuff I have is the RPM 2007 CD.
The bottom line, for me, is that last year I did all the writing and recording in February, but this year I want a different experience. I want to learn more about recording, mixing -- and maybe mastering. So is this cheating? I think if I am recording everything in February that I can control, then I say "it is alright!"
In conclusion: In my opinion, it's only cheating if you FEEL like you're cheating!
Kevin Cville Ramblings
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Bryan
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/13 16:43For me, it would feel like cheating if I started anything before February first. The challenge is to record an album in February, but myself and many others take it to another level and won't do any writing or pre-production until February. That is why I love this challenge...It's very personal, and we each get something different out of it. Good luck to everyone, and have fun!!!
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17string
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/13 19:17to throw another log onto the fire for the rules lawyers:
if the recording must be done during the challenge month of February, then any sampler-type instruments -- those that sound by reproducing recorded samples of actual devices -- must be by definition illegal unless the samples are recorded, trimmed, and used during the challenge.
YEOWCH!!
... but for the real meat of the discussion; for me it's about the recording and engineering, getting the finished project/product OUT. A lot of the actual songwriting is done during Feb, but the ideas accumulate constantly. The deadline that the challenge provides is the impetus to make those ideas grow into a project, and for me to accept the results without being so overly critical that I never stop trying for 'just one more take'. Cheating? It's in the mind of the creator.
peace!
Post edited by: 17string, at: 2008/01/13 19:24
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Judascole
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/14 08:43If it feels like cheating to you then don't do it. Follow your heart dude But honestly I don't think any one here will be calling any one a cheater. I think the goal of the whole even is to not worry about the details and just create. I will be cheering you along if you are making music even if you are "cheating" In my book the first and only rule of rock is "NEVER STOP ROCKING!"
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BrokenPromiseKeeper
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/15 16:11For me, the Challenge encompasses much more than just the songwriting -- doesn't RPM stand for Record Production Month or something like that? My goal is to deliver as professional results as I can within the timeframe. I aim for well-crafted power-pop -- catchy melodies, upbeat rhythms, clever lyrics (hopefully), nice harmonies, etc. Mid-period Beatles are my yardstick and I wanna be not only the Fab Four but George Martin as well. Lofty goals but hey, that's the Challenge.
So from about Thanksgiving on, I've been pulling out song ideas that have been percolating since last year, jotting down riffs or lyrics, and helping them to gel before February 1. I won't have 10 finished songs by then, but hopefully enough of a road map that I can use the time of the Challenge to polish them up, perfectly nail the parts for each, then mix it into a coherent whole.
Any scrapbook ideas I've recorded before February 1 are going to be completely re-recorded during the Challenge and most likely changed (at least a little but likely a lot) from my original inspiration. And to me that doesn't feel like cheating.
I know that if I don't have the basic songs worked out by 2/1, either in my head or as a rough recording, the other half of the Challenge of producing the record is going to suffer. No amount of studio wizardry can fix a crappy song or a rushed take. And a wizard I ain't.
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mick
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/15 16:56Yeah, I thought so so too last year. I started putting together "Dream" from last year, building all those samples with the synths and earineering record bits and it took a HUGE amount of time. That was even before I got the song -- so I think getting some samples together up front is okay.....
but remember it a challenge to yourself so you gotta be okay with the way you're doing it. If you started now most would agree that outside the realm of the challenge. But if you're practicing up some chord progression, trying some drum beats, or other I think you can be okay with that.
As for me, I'm polishing up my gin and tonic recipe ... much faster then margaritas.
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mick
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/15 17:40Glad to see you back, Rob! And thanks again for making the compilation disks look SOOOOOOO GOOD.
What you got in store for us this year? If you have that one song you want some acoustic drums, I'll volunteer my beating services to you. Lay down the electronic version and I'll match it on the Ludwigs.
You know the caveat though...if I have time.
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agedmachine
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/15 20:01Since this is the 'is it cheating' thread, another RPM participant and I were discussing collaborations...
If we did a collaborative track, could we both include it on our respective RPM discs, or would that be cheating?
Hmm..
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17string
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/15 20:15agedmachine wrote: Since this is the 'is it cheating' thread, another RPM participant and I were discussing collaborations...
If we did a collaborative track, could we both include it on our respective RPM discs, or would that be cheating?
Hmm..
Good one! As a matter of fact, in another thread a few of us discussed taking Mick's The RPM Wall Song as a challenge and doing a collective submission. If I did a version of that song, I probably would want to include it on my personal project as well (with Mick's permission, of course). So I also would like to know if that is cheating.
Also, while thinking about it, it seems to me that the question "what is cheating?", since many participants are taking an extremely narrow view, is actually the flip side of the question "what is the challenge?"; the answer to that seems to be different for everybody.
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/15 21:52Last year, I did a rather interesting experiment with Frederick E. Slidepole:
Each of us wrote and recorded our albums independently, nine songs. Then, I sent him one of my finished tracks, and he sent me one of his. We proceeded to dismantle each other's songs to create our tenth song.
So it was a KIND OF collaboration, but not completely mutual! It was really fun, and got us to stretch outside of our normal bounds.
If you're interested, he took my song "On Your Left" and created "On Your Left (You'll Notice Bugs Taking Over The World)", and I took his song "His Name Is Bandit!" and created "The Bandit City (That Works)". You can find all of that on the Jukebox.
So, that's one way to have a collaboration be on two distinct albums. I wouldn't consider a straight-up collaboration on two albums cheating, personally, but it's nice if there are distinctions.
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Ethiks Committee
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/15 22:49I've been demoing songs this past week... Since the challenge started, I've got the songwriting bug and I'm not about to throw inspiration away! Also, I found that I ended up using a few ideas I had rolling around in my head but had no use until the challenge for the album. It just ended up all fitting together and got to the point where I was thinking that it would be wrong to not put certain ideas into the album...
That's just my take on it. Who knows what I'll feel like for this year!
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tangmo
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/16 01:57Exactly! The more important question isn't 'what's cheating?' but 'what's challenge?'.
We all know there are going to be a few who sign on that will spend more time on their album name than they spend in recording 35 minutes of room noise. What's the 'challenge' in that, even if it follows the rules?
So I can't be completely post-modern about defining the challenge...but I wouldn't be the rule cop either.
At the minimum take on the challenge as it's meaningful for you, but also as it's defined in the guidelines.
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thel1195
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/16 02:54Wow this got deep in a hurry. I agree with the idea presented of "what's a challenge" for each person. If you're prolific enough to create lyrics, music and produce all in one motion, that's probably you're challenge and you'll start with a blank slate. If you're like me, I have to have a general idea before I begin. Some kind of plan or it just won't go anywhere. I struggled terribly last year, but I created recorded in 18 days when I really wasn't ready. The quality just wasn't there either. This year I've made preparations:
Cleaned up the work space Put fresh batteries in all my pedals Changed strings on the instruments I have been writing lyrics but I have no music...just ideas
But I would feel like I was cheating if I began putting the music together before Feb 1. So I am waiting, but I want is to make music...good music and not trip over the details. That's what I want out of this. So I have done some things to make it easier, but I will still have to pull the rabbit out of my @$$ when the time comes. Its still going to be a challenge and it will still be all new.
Post edited by: thel1195, at: 2008/01/16 03:02
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lyman
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Re:Is it cheating? - 2008/01/16 16:19artwhore wrote: My idea about RPM was that you record an album in February. I've started to DEMO ideas that will become the songs that I will record in February, as I found that last year I spent too long on words and not enough time on the recording/mixing process.
this isn't cheating is it?
maybe i'll try that with my girlfriend. "No, I wasn't cheating. I was just, uh..... demoing some new girls. Yeah, that's it."
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Joshua Wentz
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Your Personal Challenge - 2008/01/16 21:33I'm hoping that this takes away the "Is It Cheating" title from the thread, as it seems to be stressing people out and we've all come to the conclusion that we're discussions what the challenge means to us over whether or not someone is cheating.
The best part about RPM is how excited and positive everyone is about the process. The more people that participate and rise to the challenge, the more new and interesting music that we all get to experience.
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)
But honestly I don't think any one here will be calling any one a cheater. I think the goal of the whole even is to not worry about the details and just create. I will be cheering you along if you are making music even if you are "cheating" In my book the first and only rule of rock is "NEVER STOP ROCKING!"
