Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 19:35So, not counting the very supportive people, anyone have coworkers, friends, etc just not get it at all? I showed the album to a few coworkers, one was very excited and happy for me. The rest were like 'cool.' 'way to go.' No exclamation points. I thought about it for awhile. Sure, it could just be that my music sucks (you'll have to wait til RPM posts it to find out because I have no idea how to convert to mp3) or it's just not their kind of music. I get that. But, to me, making an album of 10 songs or 35 minutes in 28 days is pretty damned impressive.
The very supportive people in my life explained that most people don't think they can make things. They go through their whole lives never really consciously creating anything. Maybe this sort of thing, where people are actually getting up and getting it done, maybe that makes them realize all the things they haven't done.
Maybe I just think too much about things like this.
Maybe I should just delete this and not post it because now that I'm re-reading it, it's kind of a downer.
I guess I'll end it by saying that I posted this so that people that didn't get the reaction they thought they would could see that maybe it has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with other people's issues.
I'm going to hit 'submit' anyway.
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endicottroad
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 19:44I agree completely. Sometimes people don't get it. I think that making an album in 28 days is damned impressive, no matter the quality. And kudos to you, and everyone else, for getting it done. What people don't get is that they can't connect with you. They don't know what it's like to make music, and, as such, how hard it is to get something recorded that is even coherent, much less good enough for someone else to listen to. I liken it to being a football or baseball fan. If you can relate to what it's like to feel the bat hit the ball, even if it's on a softball diamond with your beer-soaked friends, then you can relate to the experience of hitting a line drive in the majors, even if it's in a very small way. There's no common experience, or point of reference. Maybe they played in the high school band, but just did it because mom told them to, or whatever. They didn't really take it seriously. Anyway, I tend to ramble. Thanks for the post, and don't worry if not many "get" the challenge. They probably don't "get" much else, either.
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Mosfet
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 19:55You know I found the same thing to be true on my side. I am the 'account manager' for an interactive/multimedia/animation studio. So, generally speaking - I'm - by default - in the least creative position of the company.
In the middle of the month I sent out an email to everyone in the company (20 or so 'creatives') asking them to come forward if they would be interested in contributing to my cd graphics creation and/or in making videos (we do a lot of sick 2d and 3d animation as well as visual sfx).
Anyhow... March 2nd rolls around and one person asks me if "I ever made a video" for my album... That's the only direct response I got from anyone in response to my call to action.
Needless to say I'd been touting my efforts verbally all month and folks know I'm working on it..
When I made the tour of the studio with my finished CD in hand before bringing it over to the Wire offices... I got a bit of support in troubleshooting the CD label printing because the printer was in the middle of the production office..
Yeah... so it goes to show you that even in the midst of 'creative people' your creative efforts can flit by with little fan fare. Mind you I had the same experience last year, and no co-workers attended my concerts (except one intern who happened to be dating a fellow RPM'er, I think) and noone ever really made note of the videos I made either..
So I agree with your friend's assement about people's perception of 'creating' things and think that it actually extends to those in the 'creative' industry...
For the record.. the only co-worker who is exempt from this, really, is my sales guy, who was damn near close to submitting a CD for the challenge.. again, one of the 'non-creatives' in the company..
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KevinEmmrich
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 19:57In rare cases some people will get it. However, for the most part only other musicians or artists have a chance at understanding the RPM challenge -- especially if all the songs were also written in February. In the end, it is just for us!
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Trumpet Marine
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 19:58I know what you're saying.
I've been writing and recording albums my whole life. My RPM Challenge album is the third I've done in the last three years and the thirtieth album I've worked on. I long ago gave up on trying to share my excitement with other people when I finish a project. In fact, most of my co-workers don't even know I make music.
I used to be different, but then I realized that telling somebody that you did something creative creates sort of an awkward feeling in them of an unclear expectation. They think "hmmm, I'm supposed to say or do something here, like get excited, or listen to their stuff, but if I don't like it than I am in the unfortunate position of having to either lie or burst their bubble". Nobody really wants to deflate the excitement of a friend or have to lie to them, and honestly I figure that most people expect to be underwhelmed by amateur music. I mean, come on, they watch American Idol and feel good about laughing at 99% of the goobers who try out, knowing that those people suck even though they think they're good.
If I tell friends about my albums, I tend to tell them also that it's my hobby, it makes me really excited and I enjoy doing it, but that I don't expect them to listen to it or like it. That sort of gets that out of the way. Sometimes they still ask to hear it and sometimes they really like it. That is gratifying. I have one co-worker who is a big fan of my music (and his son is an even bigger fan, from what I hear). That's great. Most of the rest of them don't even know I did RPM and I think that's generally for the best. It's too bad that it's so hard to share the love, but I don't think it's because they aren't excited for you, I think it's because they're afraid of being called on to burst your bubble.
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Alejandro Rodriguez
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 20:17Are you surprised? what did you expect? Most people who aren't musicians don't really care to take the time to listen to new music. Most people like the music thats around, the music they are exposed to. There's nothing wrong with that.
Whenever you casually pick up a guitar around half-friends or some schmucky acquaintances, you'll eventually get a request.
I actively listen to music with bigassmama alien headphones. But i know most people do not do this. Only the musicians or the nerds who pride themselves with their 'enlightened musical tastes' do that crap. Those are the people who will listen to your stuff. Not the coworker at Applebee's who doesn't have hobbies.
You should definitely try to spread your music around to everyone, but you know what to expect.
P.S. i'm either a musician or a music nerd, so ill listen to your stuff.
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tangmo
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 20:33I think it's OK for a little introspection.
I've had mixed reactions. A lot of verbal support during the process from some, while others were almost hostile to the whole notion of the challenge itself. Some friends threw the doors open and did actual musical work. Some are pretty apathetic about much of anything. Now that I'm releasing the CD one song at a time, I'm disappointed somewhat in the overall 'non-cheerleading' reception/reaction...but then again, I always am.
Unless and until you write a song that changes a life or alters a culture, the truth is nobody will ever be as close to your work as you are. All the more reason to please yourself.
Sometimes there may be some jealousy at play. But mostly I agree with that 'lack of connection'...they just don't get it.
People have become accustomed to entertainment of choice at thier fingertips. Nothing is truly fun for them anymore...it's all just product awaiting thier consumption and reaction. These are our 'patrons', sadly.
Hard to end on an 'up' note after that...except to say there are hundreds of 'us' who do get it, who can appreciate the effort, and who can listen with imagination,
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KevinEmmrich
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 20:49"...hmmm, I'm supposed to say or do something here, like get excited, or listen to their stuff, but if I don't like it than I am in the unfortunate position of having to either lie or burst their bubble".
Just tell them upfront to lie to you and tell you it's great. That will be easier on everybody all around.
Kevin Cville Ramblings
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Big Dickens
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 21:34Do people really relate to HOW a finished product gets delivered to them? For the most part no. What people are concerned with is the end result. Can they relate? Is it something that entertains them or gives them some kind of benefit? That's what matters for most people. All else is irrelevant.
That being said, I did this RPM challenge for me. If anyone else "gets it", that's great. If not, that's fine too.
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Gary Fox
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 21:55The only people who congratulated me were the folks at the Wire and Sean from Museum of Science.
I didn't expect any from anyone else, since I did this last year. Most people don't have any idea what it takes to write decent songs (I sure don't! ) let alone what it takes to record them.
This year I have just been listening to them and sharing selected songs with friends. They can appreciate a good song, so I don't bother to tell them the rest.
Cheers,
Gary
Post edited by: Gary Fox, at: 2007/03/04 21:00
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endicottroad
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 22:16One other note to add: Of the people I know, only my immediate family really knows or cares. My wife is among the most enthusiastic, but then again I write a lot of songs about her, and our relationship, so part of her interest is in getting an ego boost. But that's OK. I don't mind. My kids are all creative, doing various arts and crafts and music and drawings and other things, so they can appreciate what it takes to create something, and they are interested because they love me. The people at work are all caught up in their own lives, and really couldn't care less. I don't bother them with it.
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Indi
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 22:20I'm new at this whole 'sharing of music' with other people. I really had no idea how people would react but I guess I did have expectations. Unconscious ones, but they were there. They won't be next time. I'll still share, but only if people ask. If there's no interest, meh, that's fine. I did do this project for myself, to push myself, as most of you did. I wasn't thinking of other people while writing, or how they would take my music. But I guess part of me did want them to say 'hey! I had no idea you could do that! neat!' I suppose they appreciated it and related to it the only way they knew how. That's okay.
I'm glad that we have this community of people that are so supportive. I have read over an over again people saying that they actually feel like a 'real musician'...I feel that way, too. I will really feel that way once the music is out there.
I think it's easier to have 'strangers' listen to music you've made anway. I don't have to see strangers on Monday morning
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NOTRATSMOLES
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 23:07why the fukk do you care about some assmunch who thinks american idol is "art"? be a MOLE, not a RAT!
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doetting
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 23:07Well, most people won’t get it because they’re just tuned to something other than you are &/or not able to get it &/or don’t want to get it… most people, as several responders to your post have said, are only going to be interested in the product, not the process. That’s OK.. –The odd part for me was the people I thought WOULD get it who didn’t (e.g., “Is there a prize?”) –That “record(ing) an album in 28 days, just because you can” would be exciting is a concept that made sense to only a very few people I spoke with.
You & everyone else who finished their CD knows what you did is impressive. I'm looking forward to hearing your music.
David (for Band C)
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Big Dickens
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 23:21NOTRATSMOLES wrote: why the fukk do you care about some assmunch who thinks american idol is "art"? be a MOLE, not a RAT!
American Idol *is* art. Mindless art but art nonetheless. I myself find it quite entertaining when those who can't sing to save their lives go up and audition. It's the ones who *can* sing and end up making it that bore me to death.
Actually i don't watch American Idol....please disregard this post.
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Gumbo
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 23:34Indi wrote: I wasn't thinking of other people while writing
the silver lining of this kind of experience is when you get someone who actually likes the same stuff that you do, and says so.
I'm self-employed and the first thing on most business plan type info is "know you're audience"
Keep putting it out there, and find your audience. You won't have to waste so much time next year
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Indi
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 23:44Gumbo wrote: Keep putting it out there, and find your audience. You won't have to waste so much time next year
I hope I do find my audience, and I will say to them, 'Yes, bitches, I love you too.' and they will know that's a good thing (or that I watch too much Dave Chappelle). Either way, it will be glorious.
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acoustichewy
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 23:57True, true. Even some of the people that you think would care don't a lot of the time. I think the whole thing is with most people is that they just don't "listen" to music. people like to have it on, they like to hear it, but they don't listen to it. there are so many finer details of a good recording, and you can go back to them for years and find weird new little subtleties, or hear it in a way that you weren't hearing it before. Even in my own measly attempts there are intricate things that just go complete unnoticed. Either that or people just don't care about them the way that I do. Those are the shapes in the painting while the notes make the colors. It helps form the song, not only musically, but also in what the song is trying to convey. And then of course there's matters of taste. Some people just don't like the same sounds, the way some people don't like the same foods. So, what can you do? Like someone down below me said, I did it for me. I'm the one that rocks out to the album every day, they're songs about my life. No wonder no else cares.
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My Imaginary Life
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/04 23:58I have felt the same way, a bit disappointed in others' reactions - it can almost be like, 'what the hell do I have to do to impress you people?' But I think we want people to think it's impressive because...well, we know it's impressive.
In a way, it's like, we're wanting people to reflect back what we already think about it. It is impressive to write an album in 28 days, but like someone else pointed out, not many people have an appreciation for what that means exactly.
The thing is, if you are basing your 'worth' or accomplishment on others' responses, you will always be at their mercy. I think the secret is to sit with the fact that you know that it's impressive and a tremendous accomplishment, and let that fulfill you. And if others give you great responses, then that's a terrific bonus!!
But the bottom line is that this challenge was a very personal one for all of us, and I think that we are the ones who, rightfully, should be most impressed that we finished it!
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Kaichi
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 02:48tangmo wrote: Sometimes there may be some jealousy at play. But mostly I agree with that 'lack of connection'...they just don't get it.
I've seen a little of the jealousy in play, with my RPM album. A couple of my friends (who are also musicians) have been giving me the cold shoulder, since I told them I finished and showed them the package I put together for it. It kind of hurt, at first, because I expected them, of all people, to understand. But then I had to laugh, because I realized they're just mad that I actually went out and did something they've been talking about for years and years and don't have the drive to do. That's no failing of mine. It's a failing of theirs. So with that in mind, I've been bringing it up every time I see/talk to them.
I also got a lot of people asking "Is there a prize/what did you win?" Even after I'd explained it was a lot like NaNoWriMo, a challenge some of them were at least familiar with. Maybe some of them do realize how much work it is to put together a full album in 28 days, and they're keeping quiet instead of saying "What crazy thing in your head would make you do such a thing, for no monetary return?!" The whole idea of working this hard for "nothing" is alien to most people. Sadly, the satisfaction of meeting a personal goal has become meaningless to many people--unless it is also accompanied by financial gain.
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Mosfet
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 04:44Gary Fox wrote: The only people who congratulated me were the folks at the Wire and Sean from Museum of Science.
GREAT JOB GARY!!! WOO WOO!! Now you soak your blistered fingers in Palmolive, and start stretching your liver out for the Listening party...
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Floppy Jalopy
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 05:12I used to show my work to people (drawing, Painting, Music ) in hopes of getting a "way-to-go" "That's Cool" or even "Well ain't that sumthin!" Inevitably I would be dissapointed by their response.
I would either think they weren't giving me the utmost supportive answer, or (on occasion) if they did respond with appropriate excitement, I would convince myself they were only saying it to be nice.... pretty sad huh?
Last year with RPM was really the first time I started doing something for me, just because it was fun.. I wanted people to hear the end result - sure, and I hoped there are some who understand what it took, but the point of the completed project was I did this myself. And that was the best part.
For me this year, the only feedback about my album I am really interested in is all of you.. the fellow RPMers who know what the cold dank basement feels (and smells) like, and why we went there in the first place.
I'm excited for you Indi. Congratulations.You did a great thing. And only those of us who went through it too will really appreciate what it means.
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ACL
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 05:21My Imaginary Life wrote: The thing is, if you are basing your 'worth' or accomplishment on others' responses, you will always be at their mercy. I think the secret is to sit with the fact that you know that it's impressive and a tremendous accomplishment, and let that fulfill you. And if others give you great responses, then that's a terrific bonus!!
But the bottom line is that this challenge was a very personal one for all of us, and I think that we are the ones who, rightfully, should be most impressed that we finished it!
Exactly.
Or to quote the Tao Te Ching:
Care about people's approval and you will be their prisoner.
Everyone who took this challenge seriously - whether you completed an album or not - is a winner for doing so:
• If you completed your album - you accomplished something you didn't know you could do.
• If you were unable to complete it - hell, at least you tried... which is more than the musicians who looked at this challenge and decided not to do it. Trying counts.
The point is: this challenge was about learning something about the creative process we go through when we make music - and more importantly, how we do it. It acted as a supercharger to our creativity, and gave us a sense of accomplishment for our effort. It kicked us out of our doldrums and got us back to doing what we said we wanted to do: we made music.
Finally - didn't you feel jazzed about having done it when you plopped that CD in the mail? Didn't you feel great?
That feeling is what you should carry away from this experience - not the second guessing about song choices, lyrics, instrument selection, mixing, or overall production - nor how others looked at you for doing it:
You recorded an album in 28 days.
And that's a pretty damned spiffy accomplishment.
I'm glad we did it - and I'm certain we'll be doing it again. This was a tremendous experience.
kirk & wendy, aka ACL, aka another cultural landlside
Post edited by: ACL, at: 2007/03/05 04:26
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Bucket72
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 06:16I TOTALLY want to congratulate each and every one of you for finishing. Any one, or group of us who turned a record in gets a well-deserved 'Bravo Zulu'.
People who congratulated me were my good friends, my family, my wonderfully patient girlfriend, and close buds in other bands. Even the ones whose tastes didn't care for the RPMC were very interested in the end, either wishing they'd participated directly or that I'd "at least give them" a CD.
I don't do this for the popularity or airplay, if I were seeking that from this musical endeavor, I would have done a boring Battle of the Bands somewhere. Not RPM.
Fuck yeah, dude. I just wrote ten songs!
-Matt
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Zira
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 06:17i'm proud of less than half of the cd
but like i said before this wasnt for a grade its pass/fail a mark on the door frame of our musical growth our marathon we ran
congrats to all who tried and you rock to those who finished
must people dont finish most of what they want to do much less something as subjective as this
as for converting the mp3s put cd in computer start itunes go to itunes drop down prefrences, advanced, importing import using mp3 encoder save click import
i plan to train for next year and kick my own ass
all my friends were supportive most wanna hear it even family members who could really care less thought it was cool i was doing it
it's done time to start writing new stuff better stuff
Post edited by: Zira, at: 2007/03/05 05:22
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Michelle Moon
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 06:51Be extremely proud of your effort, even if you don't like the outcome right now. It's very hard to judge how you feel about a recent project while you're still burnt out on those songs from playing them for a month!
Through participating last year, I learned some things that have stayed with me:
- Some people will really be impressed and praise your work. Others will not. Either way, you just can't let it get to you. If you did the project in the spirit of pushing yourself creatively, then you'll realize you gained a tremendous amount regardless of the reactions of others. I'm amused now when I think about last year's project, and about who had good things to say and who didn't. Some of my closest friends thought my effort was pretty lame (and said so), while on the other hand total strangers have written me to say they enjoyed it. There's no accounting for taste! What this taught me was to get a lot less hung up on people who didn't like what my music. No one will ever like everything. I decided it's enough to sing and play for people who enjoy your genre and style - no need to try to appeal to everyone!
- A lot of people who seem unimpressed just don't understand the amount of work it takes to do this. Writing a single song is hard, and most people have never tried it. As we all know, songwriting poses challenges that writing poems or short stories don't. Then there's practicing, then there's arranging, then there's laying down each track, and then there's editing -- it's a time-consuming, multi-step process. I was blown away by doing my own small-scale project, and then realizing the resources it must take to do a full-band, many-tracked, commercial radio-quality recording. Most folks would be astounded at the amount of time and effort even a simple recording takes, iif they experienced it themeselves.
-The other invisible element is what you learned. The finished CD, however bad or good, is just an artifact. It's just a recording, a manipulated set of performances from a snapshot in time. What it can't show is how you got from point A to point B. My recording this year is so-so, and the sound quality does not compare well to last year's at all. But why is that? Because this year I recorded and edited it myself, and I knew absolutely nothing about doing that before I started. Nothing! So while it sounds like who done it and ran, it represents an amazing trajectory that took me on an audio-tech journey. What I learned about that will always be with me. So you learned how to write and record an entire album of music in a short time - you learned that you can do that - and in the process, you've undoubtedly learned a lot more than that. No one listening to your CD, or looking at the art in a jewel case, can possibly understand what changed in you as a result of the project.
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17string
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 07:42Yeah, we did it for US! I'm impressed, not only for what I did not realize I could do (and kinda-sorta did over 28 days), but for the whole bunch of us who grabbed the flag and ran with it! I don't tell many people outside of family and close friends about what I do as a musician, because for the rest of the population it's about as interesting as stamp collecting -- they're not familiar with what goes on behind the curtain and they just DON'T COMPREHEND. Not their failing, they simply have never seen what's involved; cannot imagine what goes into the process. So much of modern media is 'musical furniture' and people don't get excited when a woodworker tries to tell them the passion it took to make a porch swing or some other somewhat functional piece of furniture.
The disconnect is not between our selves and our friends, it's between our appreciation of the artistic PROCESS and the appreciation (or ignorance) of the process that our friends/coworkers have. Yes, I'm repeating what's been said: they just don't 'get it'. But we do! YAY!
BTW, I'm not sure if I yet comprehend what happened in February. I think it'll take some time for me to process exactly what I accomplished.
Post edited by: 17string, at: 2007/03/05 06:45
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Gary Fox
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 08:36Mosfet wrote: GREAT JOB GARY!!! WOO WOO!! Now you soak your blistered fingers in Palmolive, and start stretching your liver out for the Listening party...
Aw shucks...Mosfet, you are always there for me... Sniff! I love you man. Lagavulin's on me...
For those of you who don't know, Mosfet is on my payroll...
Seriously, thank you. You as well, and you already know how I feel about your artwork.
For the general posting public, I think there could sometimes be an element of "If it's local, it's not very good." You know what I mean.
Therefore, pulling together an album in 28 days is even more of that, "Ummm...nice work, that's interesting... (thinking to themself: "It can't be any good...") Then they change the subject..."
It's tough, but I don't really care anymore. I have Mosfet.
Cheers,
Gary
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Gary Fox
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 08:47By the way Indi, nice work. This year almost killed me trying to get this done, and I consider myself to be somewhat seasoned. Since this was your first time, welcome to the veterans club, since it's over.
Something else just occurred to me as well: Congrats on having the cojones to say you would like a little praise. C'mon everyone, we all have egos...I for one will admit that I like hearing from someone that what I just did was great or good, or something. Another RPMer e-mailed via MySpace to say they really liked what I had done for the Challenge (I put 4 up there). It made my night.
So, Indi, in closing, you're well within your rights to be a little deflated over it. Now, go make friends with Mosfet...
Cheers All,
Gary
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bicurious
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Re:Unimpressed - 2007/03/05 09:21Well, wait a minute, folks. Let's keep in mind that "come see my band" can be right up there with "come to my reading" in terms of teeth-grinding misery.
Generally speaking, if I hear that someone threw together a record in 4 weeks, I don't expect to be impressed (although, come to think of it, most local bands record their records inside a month). And with all the self-deprecating-ness on this thread, can you blame people? "Hey, I have no idea what I'm doing! Wanna listen?"
Now: if it rules, that's another story! But it's hard to make a record that people actually want to hear. It's hard to write a poem, write a song, write a story, etc, etc, that anyone will LIKE!
People are scared it's gonna suck, so they're (understandably, I think ) wary.
I mean, anyone can yell into a tape recorder for 35 minures. It doesn't make it listenable. "I made a record really fast" doesn't sound like a recipe for good music. To the uninitiated.
Seriously, put yourself in their shoes. What if someone from work brought in the quilt they worked really hard on? Or the gun they restored? Or the meat from the deer they shot? Or the christmas ornaments they made? Or the bible verses they decopaged onto a bread box?
Would you be supportive? Or scared? Hmm?
I guess my point is: if you like what you made, share it with your friends! And the internet world! We (our band) love what we did, and we want EVERYONE to listen to it and love it! And if people aren't interested IT'S THEIR LOSS!!!
I mean, if someone you worked with was really enthusiastic, and took it home for the weekend, and than came in Monday and said, "Oh my GOD! That SUCKED!" Would you feel better?
Most people are trying to avoid that sort of thing. I'm sorry, I hate 99.9% of the music I hear. That .1% is what makes it all worth it. So, yes, all my RPM firends, I'm scared to get too excited about your new record!
But PROVE ME WRONG!
Erik (not Nova)
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But I think we want people to think it's impressive because...well, we know it's impressive. 
or some other somewhat functional piece of furniture.
