BarlowBrad
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Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 04:51
I don't know about you guys, but I have the hardest time liking my songs partway through the process, and even when they are finished. I seem to suffer from a type of perfectionism that causes me to feel like every song I write sounds just like every other song I've written, using the same tired melodies and rhymes.
Sometimes I look back on my songs after a couple months and think... hey, this one's not so bad. Then I'll take it back out and practice it enough to record/perform. But this is rare. Maybe it's because most of my songs aren't quality, or maybe it's all in my head.
Has anyone else struggled with this sort of thing? Or perhaps used to be in the vicious cycle of songwriting perfectionism and got out of it? What do you do to determine the quality of your songs and decide whether it's worth recording or not? How do you keep your music fresh?
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Unsung
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 05:07
i know what you mean.
but this is what always happens.
when you're trying to write your verse
you end up with a pretty decent chorus
use that and you will not be dissapointed
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Kaichi
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 05:20
I get that way with my songs, sometimes. But it helps that I have a girlfriend with a good ear, now. So when I get a new idea, I just sing it to her. If she seems ambivalent, I work harder on it. If she gets a misty look in her eyes and a soft smile on her lips, I know it's good, and I may either leave it as is or tweak it a bit. If she cries, I know it's great. 
But before I had her help, I just used myself as a judge. If I could put it aside for a week, then come back and play the song ten times in a row without wanting to throw up, it was likely better than I first thought it was. If I feel dread at the thought of playing it, or get tired of it after playthrough number two or three, I won't waste any more time on it. You really just have to learn to trust your own feelings, and write a lot of songs, believing that even the ones that aren't perfect can still touch someone's heart.
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crevell
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 05:29
No matter how bad it seems, carry on and finish it. Record everything. EVERYTHING. Time consuming? Yes. Depending on your medium, it can also get a little pricey. But I think it's worth it. Even if you never use anything in those tapes, or files, or whatever, at least you have a record of where you were and how you wrote. It also helps with the actual act of recording, since, like instruments, to do it well takes practice. At least, those are my thoughts.
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Jon Nolan!
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 10:00
hell yeah, i know about this too. i think this happens to everybody.
RPM is a perfect chance to try something different!
ideas:
-try using someone elses guitar
-write songs only on piano/bass/kids toys
-lay down the drums first - improvising the changes
-write the lyrics first/last
-turn the 'chorus' chords of an unfinished song into the verse, and write a song around it.
- write a song using less than thirty words.
sometimes i'll have a tune kicking around forever, but can't finish it to my satifaction. i agree with crevell, finishing a thought is a good idea, and i could be more disciplined about it myself. i always try to record whatever it is i have though. i've come back to pick over the 'scrap heap' plenty of times and with great success (IMO).
can't wait to hear what you guys come up with!
cheers from chilly New Hampshire...
Jon
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joshmillard
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 15:09
How do you get over perfectionism?
You don't give yourself time to second guess. You just do, and do, and keep busy doing. You adopt constraints like RPM.
You keep yourself so busy creating that you don't have time to shit on yourself for not being perfect. You learn to grapple towards the good, to seize the little tiny bits that really are just right, just perfect, and tolerate the imperfect dressings they live in.
Eventually, the good stuff gets easier. You learn to work faster, write more confidently, instinctively drop what you don't like and focus on what you do like earlier in the process. You end up with fewer finished messes and more promising starts.
But you have to just do and do and do.
How do you keep it fresh?
Listen to new things. Borrow CDs that you've never heard of, listen to genres you don't listen to. Listen to the parts of songs you don't usually focus on - specific instrumentation, lyrics, harmonies.
Listen to old things new ways. Turn up the stereo, sit down two rooms away, and listen to the murky bassy stuff that comes through. Play mp3s back at double or quadruple speed. Listen to just one side of a stereo track, and then the other, and pay attention to the little details in the stereo mix that you usually don't notice.
Turn on the radio, pick one little piece out of the first song you hear - three notes in a melody, a guitar noise, two bars of percussion in the verse - and steal that. Write a song around it. Try to figure out why that little bit is different from what you would normally write.
Throw together chords you wouldn't normally throw together. Write in an unfamiliar time signature. Play one of your existing songs backwards. Write a song using a paragraph from The Economist as lyrics.
The secret is to push and to flail and to constantly examine things outside of your existing toolbox. Expand your vocabulary constantly, and do things you don't know how to do.
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Scott McBride
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 15:43
BarlowBrad wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but I have the hardest time liking my songs partway through the process
I'm with you, man. Usually when I'm in the very early stages of recording a song (scratch tracks, etc), I start to hate it. I start thinking "this one isn't turning out how I wanted it at all!" but I usually press on and by the end I've accomplished what I've set out to do or, at the very least, have a new song completely recorded that I can go back and alter if I'm not satisfied.
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Kaichi
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 16:22
Wow, Josh, you said a lot of what I wanted to say last night, but was too sleepy to find the brain cells to compose. You also said it very well. *applauds and amens*
And on a totally unrelated note, this  is a really cute smiley. So is this  . I feel like that last one a lot! Except that lately I'm more like this  most of the time. Sleep deprivation sucks.
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Scott McBride
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 16:46
joshmillard wrote:
...Play one of your existing songs backwards...
I used to do that a lot when I recorded on my tape-based 4 track.
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BarlowBrad
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 17:03
Wow... thanks guys... this is great stuff and a great help. Keep it comin!
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mooclow
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 17:29
I tend to write a new song every week, all out, and one out of the month is good. and one out of 2 months is great. so i tend to tear every song apart and make a new song out of old parts. so the more i write, the more i have, and eventually use. I tend to never really dislike a riff, or melody, or progression, its just in the wrong place.
im promising myself that everything i use for the record i make is brand new, no reused riffs or anything. I think im gonna die
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Ticharu
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 20:39
man, I try not to think about it... I use the 'empty vessal' approach... just play, and if the gods are smiling on you today, something will come of it. And the instant I'm done recording it, I forget everything about it, what the chords were and all that.
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Nick
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 21:51
This is why I entered, really
I find the hardest part is letting go of something, just accepting it as it is and releasing it
I'll spend hours tweaking 30 seconds of audio, re-recording, twisting, tweaking, and when I finally start getting it close to what I think it should sound like, I've burnt myself and completely lose interest in the project
I'm going to try and conciously avoid that; I'll have to if I am to succeed at this.
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hlucke
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 22:40
I definitely think Josh nailed it. Part of the beauty of this project is that you have an obvious deadline, so it's done at a certain time and you have to go with what is there. You can revisit it if you want to later, but at least one version is finished.
Personally, I constantly re-record and mess with the sound of things. I think that will be my biggest obstacle in recording these songs. One of the things I want to use this for is just recording the sound in the room and not worrying about the post-production aspect so much.
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Ticharu
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 23:16
Very interesting... I have friends that will work on parts for hours and even days, recording and re-recording... if I don't get it right after a couple times through, I abandon it and do something else. I get bored... if a track becomes boring I never finish it.
If a song is difficult to play, then I'll practice it a lot, until I can perform the thing... then record it and promptly forget how to play it. But the overdubs have to come quickly, I rarely spend any time on that stuff at all... obviously I have to lay the bass down before I forget what the chords were! 
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Bike Rider
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/27 23:32
For me the perfectionism / fussing about comes not in the writing or the playing but in the recording. When I write a song, I'm actually writing down what I'm hearing. I have that "thing" that Beetovan and Mozart had. They hear so much music in their head they couldn't write it down fast enough. It makes it both easy and frustratingly hard to record. It doesn't sound like I heard it is a common problem I have.
Then there's the sneaky song that will try to come through while I'm writing another song. I end up with two songs. And most times, they are not the same. Some times the two songs become one song
Writing songs, for me happens quickly. I'd say I rarely spend more than 30 minutes writing them out. They can be as quick as 5 minutes. Some will come along in a constipated manner, taking different attempts on more than one day to complete it.
I've been writing a lot of songs the last 4 years. 700 so far. Yes, I'm hogging them all. I enjoy writing medleys of short songs and multi part songs: it's the same music, but different lyrics. I've also written two story albums of 20 songs each.
I don't have any concepts about a song when I write it. It flows as it flows. They are like living breathing entities that grow and thrive every time they are played.
And I've had just as many songs that I rejected at some point in the writing process. Just because I write a lot doesn't mean I'll put up with writing crap.
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tangmo
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/28 00:07
I think you have to understand that sometimes those riffs and rhymes ARE tired.
A lot of people I know dabbling in creative stuff are too hard on themselves...like if they aren't creating the best thing they've ever done (or worse, the best thing anyone's ever done) then it's not worth continuing.
Then there are those who are so convinced of thier own artiness that they are sure whatever falls from thier creative anus is pure gold and needs no refinement, filtering, editing.
So it actually sounds to me like you are quite sane, given those extremes.
I have an inkling of what I can do under this deadline, and I suspect you do too. Just do the best you can within the time limits and hope for a jewel or two (or parts of a jewel or two) you can refine, filter, and edit.
I believe that the worst songs are the ones that want to get out the most. So I say, let them. Rather than constipate yourself worrying about the quality of dookie you've yet to drop...just use the month as a 28 day creative enema. Get purged.
Hopefully, there's not 10 really crappy songs waiting in the creative colon for discharge, but there may be a few. Once you've cleaned out, though, you may find you're suddenly writing better songs that have just been stored in the upper colonic regions...maybe it will even happen during the month.
I can't ask for more than that. Maybe you shouldn't either.
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BarlowBrad
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/28 00:27
Haha... amazing metaphors man. You had me laughing out loud. I think you hit my nail on the head... I am too hard on myself. I do think I tend to feel if it's not the best thing I've ever done it's not worth doing. Thanks for pointing it out... and here's to RPM... Record Purging Month.
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erik
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/30 21:09
BarlowBrad wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but I have the hardest time liking my songs partway through the process, and even when they are finished. I seem to suffer from a type of perfectionism that causes me to feel like every song I write sounds just like every other song I've written, using the same tired melodies and rhymes.
Has anyone else struggled with this sort of thing? Or perhaps used to be in the vicious cycle of songwriting perfectionism and got out of it? What do you do to determine the quality of your songs and decide whether it's worth recording or not? How do you keep your music fresh?
Almost always, when someone says something like you've said, there will be a chorus of "You're too hard on yourself, man, it's all good blalhblabhlahblahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah."
Which is good if you need encouragement to record in the first place. But if want to go beyond that, and actually improve the average enjoyability of your songs, you should really examine your process of songwriting, and see if you can do something to change it up.
The entire genre of mashups have shown me that the same melody can go with many, many arrangements, and in some instances sound radically different in tone just by changing the accompaniment. If you think you've got a melody that is too similar to something else, trying adding a bunch of instruments on top to mask that, or try changing the melody slightly until it stops reminding you of whatever you were reminded of in the first place. If you find that you're coming up blank on how to change a song to sound "differenter", it can be helpful to throw yourself out of your comfort zone, and start with something you don't normally start with. If you usually start strumming some chords, start by singing a melody. If that's sounding too samey-samey, start by picking random notes to seed your melody. Or start with a bassline, if you normally don't. Different instruments have different roles in your music (probably), so starting with a different one might shift your focus and make you make a song that sounds different from how your normally sound.
Oblique Strategies are pretty cool ways to jumpstart your brain when it refuses to come up with anything cool. The trick is to do them, regardless of whether they seem like a good idea or not. Like "take away the most important part" might seem stupid, but it might make you think about adding something else in there that you wouldn't have thought of otherwise.
Collaboration can be a way to get you outside of your comfort zone, because everyone (okay, not everyone) does things differently, and someone else might have exactly what you need to get a song to sound unique.
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KimWalker
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/30 22:50
I must say, I don't trust myself to judge the quality of my music until at least a month after I have it written and recorded.
I need that distance to be objective about my own work. While I'm doing it, I'll hate a song because of some mistake that makes me cringe every time I hear it. Or worse, I'll love a song because I like the idea behind it, and not even recognize the song itself is a giant steaming cow pie.
So I've pretty much trained myself not to judge anything while I'm writing. Whatever comes into my head is going on the hard drive, no matter how silly it might seem, or brilliant. I refuse to censor myself.
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Nick
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/30 23:01
You know what? That's a good policy. I was about to say I was going to try that for this, but it's not like I'll have the option of judging my music fit for consumption 1 month after I finish - It'll be submitted.
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devjana
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/31 00:32
That is an interesting perspective to me. I find that the farther removed I get from the moment of inspiration, the more difficult it is for me to be objective about the music. I'm gonna go back and listen to some old stuff of mine now...
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traubert
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/31 08:33
it's always a love affair: spiteful and self-indulgent. i love them when i first meet them, and hate them when i'm done.
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mr_glide
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Re:Songwriting Perfectionism - 2007/01/31 08:51
You're not alone, mate - I suffer from this sort of mindset most of the time. I couldn't say why I keep writing, with this being the case, but it's possibly because your feel that you potentially have an amazing song somewhere inside you, and that if you persist, eventually it'll materialize.
The way I keep things fresh is by constantly pushing myself outside of my indie music comfort zone, and even if the results of such experimentation is utter crap, you can't help but learn something new from it. Just trying to appreciate what the appeal of music you dislike is to others can give you a new perspective to come from.
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