Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/11 23:52I'm going to a conference this weekend that will have over three thousand people in attendance. Given this unique diversion and chance for sample collecting, that may include speeches, singing, yelling, strange overheard conversations. I want to know what the best method of recording would be.
-a cheep regular hand held tape-deck with a record button
-an old mini-tape memo recorder
-tools and supplies to make any modifications to the innards or my rig.
I've never done this before and my main concerns are:
-How do I maximize the quality of the recording? Any tricks to it?
-Is there a way to monitor the recording to tape with headphones without more expensive and bulky equipment?
-Is there any way or marking a spot on a tape? I'm used to video recording and editing where this task is done for me by the automatic splitting up of video clips by the importing software. Is there any way to "key frame" a moment aside from having a written log with "tape 3, side a, bought halfway, interesting speech," written for each. I'll probably end up with a log anyway.
I ask here because I remember seeing a couple people here last year and this year making great use of found sound and urban recording. I couldn't remember which groups i remembered seeing, and i thought it would be rude to pm people with tech questions.
Thanks in advance!
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EvictionParty
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Re:Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/12 00:12if you need to index stuff why not just use a DAT machine and make markers( most DAT machines allow you to make timecode marks )?
Your choice of mics would naturally vary depending on the soundsource, but i think a plain old DAT machine would be best for most stuff.
Minidisc is cool also, but not nearly the sound quality. The indexing is different too. Anyway, if you can set the clock on a DAT machine correctly, it'll just print timecode continuously. You can then log according to the time displayed on the DAT machine.
For two and three camera TV amd movie shoots, the machines are locked together to a central clock - a Lockit Box, or other. Many tv shoots have one soundman who has a varitety of boom-mics, and mixes on a small portable mixer, such as the famous SQN series.
this four channel mixer goes both to the DAT, and to the cameras via camera tail cables.
seeing as this is a music project, and you just need to gather some sounds,look at mics.
you'll need to have a bit of understanding of what different mics do-
cardioid, hypercardioid, omnidirectional, parabolic etc.
look into this a bit and ask people! you don't have to get new equipment to shop wisely.
i suggest you invest in the best quality mics and recorder you can afford. In film, tv,and music production, there are 'standard' tools used for various jobs. THis does not mean something else might not work even better in some way, but you will pay for well built hardware. some really cool things just fall apart more quickly than others.
have fun recording!
dav=-0
Post edited by: EvictionParty, at: 2008/02/12 00:34
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Centrifugal Governors
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Re:Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/12 00:49The problem is I don't have one and certainly won't have the spare funds for one before the weekend, or likely this month for that matter. I'm restricted to what I have -the mic- and what i can jerry-rig. Unless there is an inexpensive option that I am not aware of, I do not think that digital will be an option.
On re-reading your response and my post, i think i should clarify my intentions. I'm going to be walking and sitting in and around the conference and want to record my surroundings from my perspective. I am not an organizer or technician for the conference. This is just to get found sounds and bytes for use in our album mixing.
Post edited by: Centrifugal Governors, at: 2008/02/12 00:52
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LSD 25
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Re:Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/12 17:46Kind of depends on the mini tape player, they are made for dictation so they are very portable which is nice but perhaps a bit lo-fi compared to a pro walkman or such. I have bought two mini disk recorders in thrift stores for around $20 they have the portability factor and pretty good recording. A friend uses a Zoom recorder and they are quite nice I think it is the H2 or 4.
The point here is that you have a mini recorder and want to use it. I would give it a try and see how bad the background noise it. If you have some kind of “vinyl restoration” program you should be able to notch out the hiss. I would check which one gives me less hiss. That said I bet the smaller and more portable the more likely you will use it and not feel self-conscious. Even with hiss you will probably be able to use it.
As far as a mike goes I have used dynamic mikes and they are nice. I have one of those $100 sony stereo mikes it is battery powered and is a condenser. It is great. I am sure any cheap mike like the kind used for camcorders would be fine too. Some ambiance is hard to record. If you are planning to do this all the time and are handy with a soldering iron you might want to check out the PAia mike you make yourself from a kit.
Just go and have fun I would just use the mini recorder if it has a built in mike. They can be condensers and pretty nice.
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Centrifugal Governors
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Re:Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/12 22:12Wish i had that kind of luck with the thrift store. Ours is pretty high traffic so unless you work there or have godly luck you won't find much. I think I'm going to end up just trying different variations with the tape deck and mini-tape to see what gives the best sound. which ever I use, i think I'm likely to be using the condenser. I may take a backpack with me that I'd be carrying with me, so as long as the rig can fit in the bag size won't be an issue. Guess not too many people have experience with custom-modding tape decks. : /
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EvictionParty
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Re:Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/12 23:13the mini tape format , like in dictaphone recorders and answering machines is pretty noisy compared to regular casette tape.
i'd say you should be fine with your condenser and a casette machine.
condensers are able to saturate the high-end and midrange much better for something like what you're doing. Is your mic internally powered?
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LSD 25
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Re:Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/13 00:04I would agree that the bigger tape will probibly sound better. A condencer mike needs phantom power so unless the mike has a battery for self power you are better off with a dynamic mike of some sort.
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Zira
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Re:Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/13 01:11mini disc is the way i go, some ppl record stuff on cell phones that have a memo feature, a regular cassette recorder would have a counter, and on mini cassette i would probably log the clips in a journal and mark the cassette with a pen for ref. points that correspond with the log like #10 man talking about duck mark 2 on cassette.
i record things with a stand alone cd burner which is big but has remote if i had 70 bux and a day to pack i'd get a belkin doohicky for the ipod
turn yer ipod video or nano into a stereo recorder sup baby
could borrow the ipod for the weekend
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timnelson
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Re:Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/13 01:25I use a tiny little minidisc recorder with a stereo condenser (both Sony, although a lot of the people on some of the forums I'm on swear by Sharp) for field recordings.
Another lot of those field recordists are really into those new flash recorders by Edirol et al, but I haven't used one yet.
I'd have to agree with the previous comments regarding microcassettes. The fidelity really leaves something to be desired, unless the mangling they do is in fact exactly what you desired; I use them (yes, plural: my current stage rig uses four of them) for playing mangled miscellany through my guitar pickups and from there on through my pedalboard... (Doing so in this photo, as a matter of fact...)
-t-
Post edited by: timnelson, at: 2008/02/13 01:27
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Centrifugal Governors
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Re:Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/13 02:30Oh wow. Do you have a recording or track up with that technique in it? I've tried similar things, but never got the result i wanted. I'll look around to see if anyone has a mini-discer I can borrow.
The condenser has a watch battery for phantom power and the manual says it will last up to 200 hours. I'm probably still going to be paranoid that it's died and recording nothing, so there may be some extra batteries in the pack too.
I'll start working tonight on the tape deck and see if I can make it work.
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Centrifugal Governors
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Re:Methods of Recording Live and Ambient Sound - 2008/02/13 05:02Damned double posting. This one was due to refreshing a page. They need to get this stuff straightened out, or at least give a delete option for your own posts.
Post edited by: Centrifugal Governors, at: 2008/02/13 05:08
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