briangrosz
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Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 00:15
given the creative and communal angles of this challenge, the following questions may seem unecessary, but i think that anyone who's spent a little time trying to make a dime in this business called "Show" should consider the following things (and perhaps request a reply from RPM headquarters).
- presumably, each of us retains the writer's credit, publishing rights, copyright, etc. i see nothing on this site about a Creative Commons License or RPM retaining some kind of rights to the songs - but that doesn't mean I shouldn't ask about it.
- that said, if you all DO have publishing companies or are registered as a writer with one of the big three (BMI, ASCAP, SESAC) it would probably be a good idea for you to register your tunes online BEFORE dropping them in the mail. if you're NOT a member of a publishing organization, it wouldn't be a bad time to fill out a writer's application - after all, it's FREE!
- and back to copyright, i would encourage anyone who takes songwriting seriously to send a copy of their recording to the the copyright office. it costs about 60-something bucks, but its always good to watch your behind in this day and age of gratuitous litigation. forms and info for US residents can be downloaded here - http://www.copyright.gov/
not to bum or freak anyone out here (RPM participants and organizers alike) - but you can never be too careful when it comes to your creative/intellectual property. plus, it's fairly easy to cover yourself.
so, with all that scary legal mumbo jumbo out of the way - let me just say that i'm psyched to take part in this challenge and can't wait to hear what we all come up with.
cheers,
grosz
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 00:23
Hmm... I distincly remember there being something about IP on this site at some point, but you're right, I can't find it now. I do recall it saying very clearly that all artists retain full rights to their work.
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tuesday
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 00:28
yeah, i thought that whole topic came up in the FAQs from last year.
i remember emailing the HQ and asking them what the deal was. They did say we retain all rights to our material.... i've got that somewhere.
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briangrosz
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 00:30
yeah, i would imagine that we retain all IP rights, but...
as tom waits said, "the large print giveth and the small print taketh away."
and i get *really* wary if i can't even *find* the fine print.
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 00:34
Of course, and if I had no previous experience with RPM, I'd probably be more confused.
Frankly, this stuff does need to be front and center— artists are inherently bad at the legal/financial side of the business of art. It's up to those savvy enough to understand what artists need to know to help get everyone up to speed.
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Gary Fox
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Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 01:29
Hey RPM HQ,
Could you please respond to this thread? A mass e-mail is probably not a bad idea either. We know and trust you, but it would be a good thing to put to bed.
Thanks
Gary Fox
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BrokenPromiseKeeper
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Re:Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 02:17
I thought I read somewhere that this year, Gumbo Stu gets the rights to everything! he's already got everyone's profiles... 
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 02:22
Did you know that Gumbo Stu is the president of Geffen?
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Gumbo
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Re:Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 02:55
   
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gonorthern
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Re:Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 03:23
Thanks, guys, for raising this important point. As I type this, we're compiling an FAQ list to post on the site, part of which would address this very issue. In the meantime, put simply;
Artists retain all rights to their own work. We hope to stream all the finished projects in the online jukebox so everyone can hear them, and include them in the listening parties, but even that isn't required -- you can send us your finished project and ask for all or part of it to not be posted, if you like.
I hope this addresses your concerns - we'll get these terms posted on the site more obviously and more officially asap.
Chris
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Gary Fox
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Re:Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 03:43
Thanks Chris.
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tangmo
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Re:Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 05:39
I still maintain I'd rather have my work stolen by someone willing to make money off it. It's hardly worth suing otherwise.
Comments copyright 2008 Gumbo Stu
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briangrosz
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Re:Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 07:13
Chris, thanks for the official note.
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briangrosz
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Re:Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 07:20
And you Gumbo Stu, kids...?
Your exceedlingly effective promotional efforts not withstanding...
There might be some young, aspiring musicians out there who could benefit from this kind of information about creating, controlling and releasing music.
but, whatever, call me an old c*nt... flame away and post my profile once again.
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tangmo
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Re:Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 08:17
Then let's give some.
Copyrights are assigned to music in two major respects.
1. The composition. The song or musical piece itself regardless of who records it, how, or when. This kind of copyright takes effect as soon as the song or composition is put in a physical form. This might be lyrics and chord changes scribbled on a napkin, the procution of sheet music, or a recording of the song onto physical media.
2. The recording. This would include both your CD and the recordings of the songs on it.
Official copyright registration can be done on both the songs and the recording on one form. Multiple songs (but not multiple compilations on seperate media) can be registered on one form. US copyrights and copyrights registered in other countries are not identical, but are commonly shared under international copyright treaties.
Practically, registering copyright officially is not necessary as your rights have already been assumed at the moment of creation (when it comes out of your head and into some physical, understandable, reproduceable form).
Official copyright registration is helpful in establishing the date of the assumption of your rights. Traditionally in the music industry, however, rights over composition are reassigned to publishers. For signed bands, record companies traditionally hold rights to the recordings. These new copyright registrations will supercede your initial rights by contract.
Other options in establishing your ownership are also available, but are less fool-proof. Enclosing your demos and completed disks under notary is one way. Publication on sites like Virb, MySpace, Acid Planet, Garageband, etc are another way. I've read a lot of TOS's and have yet to see one that claims any ownership of any of your rights other than the right to stream them/make them available for download.
Most of the advice I have gotten from people when I was doing my (admittedly limited) research suggested that it was an unnecessary step for amateurs to formally register copyright...mainly dueto the fact that such rights as you are registering are almost certain to be reassigned. The theft of 'songs' is of course possible, but not widespread. The 'theft' of recorded music is possible, and widespread. No registration of copyright protects anybody from that. It simply says that you owned the rights before anybody else...legal or illegal.
That's the best I can do at the moment for young, aspiring musicians. Older, experienced musicians already know what to do.
The whole new order of the universe brought about by the internet, digital music, PRO's, and other means of copyright are grist for dozens of other threads.
Following internal and external links at www.bmi.com should give you a better education than this post did.
Post Copyright 2008 Gumbo Stu
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tangmo
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Re:Could someone from RPM HQ read this and reply? - 2008/01/30 08:18
For US citizens interested in more information concerning copyrights.
http://www.copyright.gov/
Post edited by: tangmo, at: 2008/01/30 08:27
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Gumbo
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Re:Someone from RPM HQ has read this and replied. - 2008/01/30 10:51
tangmo wrote:
I still maintain I'd rather have my work stolen by someone willing to make money off it. It's hardly worth suing otherwise.
Comments copyright 2008 Gumbo Stu
I wish I'd said that
PS ditto Tangmo's next post. Very informative.
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mparker
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 14:52
briangrosz wrote:
- and back to copyright, i would encourage anyone who takes songwriting seriously to send a copy of their recording to the the copyright office. it costs about 60-something bucks, but its always good to watch your behind in this day and age of gratuitous litigation. forms and info for US residents can be downloaded here - http://www.copyright.gov/
For those in the UK, it's worth noting that all you automatically have copyright on all your work, the only thing is being able to prove it. This is easy to accomplish simply by sending the work to yourself via registered post.
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 15:26
This is easy to accomplish simply by sending the work to yourself via registered post.
What we call "Poor Man's Copyright" is also valid in the United States, actually, and is definitely something recommendable because it's so cheap and easy.
As we all know, however, lawyers are very good at knowing ways to weasel out of stuff like that. Where IP is concerned, it's a very slippery slope. If you are truly concerned about copyright, it's always best to go the official route.
I will say that in the 12 years I've been recording, I've yet to ever file any sort of official copyright on any of my work.
Post edited by: Joshua Wentz, at: 2008/01/30 15:33
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clique
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 17:00
For those in the UK, it's worth noting that all you automatically have copyright on all your work, the only thing is being able to prove it. This is easy to accomplish simply by sending the work to yourself via registered post.
For those in the US, this is also true:
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#mywork
Even still, the more you do to protect your IP, the more soundly you can sleep at night...if you're the paranoid type. But really, just sending a CD to RPM is a good way to help establish your copyright. If worse comes to worse, the fine folks at RPM could say, "Yes, we have a recording of this and can help prove it existed by March 2008."
Right, fine folks at RPM?
NB: While, you're there, read the official line on "poor man’s copyright." Sorry, Josh. Of course, I do have a few of these unopened packages lying around from ages past. I'll tell you what, though: It sure is thrilling to get that package in the mail!
Post edited by: John LaSala, at: 2008/01/30 17:29
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 17:56
Of course the Copyright Office is going to tell you not to do the Poor Man's Copyright.
It's a conspiracy, I tell you!
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clique
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 18:23
Josh, someone from the US Copyright Office just called me and said that I should tell you to shut up because you're a big doo-doo head. And you're a dummy and you don't know anything so shut up.
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Gumbo
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 18:25
John LaSala wrote:
Sorry, Josh. Of course, I do have a few of these unopened packages lying around from ages past. I'll tell you what, though: It sure is thrilling to get that package in the mail! <br><br>Post edited by: John LaSala, at: 2008/01/30 17:29
do you know which package to open if the need arises? The first package I sent myself didn't have anything about the contents written on the outside 
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clique
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 19:07
Heh...no, I don't. However, it wouldn't be hard to steam open the envelope, look at the contents, add in my "demo" recordings of...let's say...a few tracks from In Rainbows, seal it back up, and then get to meet Radiohead's lawyers in court! 
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clique
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 19:07
The thing with the poor man's copyright is that it's spectacularly easy to fake. You could easily send yourself an unsealed envelope and stuff it with the appropriate materials whenever you need to.
Post edited by: John LaSala, at: 2008/01/31 00:19
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mparker
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/30 19:51
John LaSala wrote:
The thing with the poor man's copyright is that it's spectacularly easy to fake. You could easily send yourself an unsealed envelope and stuff it with the appropriate materials whenever you need to.<br><br>Post edited by: John LaSala, at: 2008/01/31 00:19
That's why in the UK version you are supposed to send it registered post. I don't know if you have that in the US, but with registered post you have to hand it over the counter at the post office and you get a receipt for postage which has an official stamp on it. It also comes with insurance so you get to officially declare what is in it. Then when it arrives, it requires a signature to state that it is delivered. Much harder to fake, and you also have a 3rd party record of the process.
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17string
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/31 02:07
In regards to proof of IP, I'm curious what function the self-mailed letter has in the day when most songwriters are going to have gigabytes of rough takes, precursor ideas, etc. on their home computer. I would think being able to demonstrate the evolution of the creative process would be very convincing... any thoughts?
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clique
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Re:Copyright, publishing, licensing, etc. - 2008/01/31 03:19
I'm sure it has only less weight than it ever has.
But the proof is in the pudding..so can anyone find any pudding? I mean, has anyone ever heard of a "poor man's copyright" actually establishing legal proof of authorship? I'd love to know--to get a taste of that pudding.
Well, now I've got a craving for pudding. Good going.
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Joshua Wentz
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Survival Strategies for Emerging Artists - 2008/01/31 15:45
This is somewhat on topic... but a good read for anyone here on RPM: David Byrne's Survival Strategies for Emerging Artists
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deritastudio
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Re:Survival Strategies for Emerging Artists - 2008/02/01 02:39
I like to go with the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 3.0 United States
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