Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 09:57I'm curious where you guys "set the bar" for your RPM songs.
The fact is, I could sit down with an acoustic guitar and write/record 10 horrible songs in a single afternoon. They would be truly awful and unoriginal, but I would accomplish the task. Or conversely, I could hit record and mindlessly noodle around on guitar for 35 minutes and call it a "suite" or something. And I'm sure the same is true for most of the people here.
So where do you set the bar? What keeps you from giving in and taking the easy way out? (Or, like me, do you have the sinking feeling that when the time comes to write/record the final song or two on Feb 28th, that's when you'll take the easy way out? )
For me, it's a desire to push myself and see what I come up with - I haven't written anything in about a year, when I wrote a song for one of last year's RPM participants. And that was probably the first thing I'd written in a long time as well. Some life changes are about to happen as well, so this will probably be the last time I do much writing for awhile, so I'm trying to get the most out of this month. And having the conceit of a month-long contest helps me sell the concept to my wife as well -- "Hey, I'll be holed up in my office, but only for a month!"
Basically, I want to make sure I've still "got it" (if I ever even had it before!)
So what's driving you?
...another lengthy post from The 16 Points
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navonski
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 12:08I try to think of my intended audience -family and friends- and try to put out something that I won't be embarrassed with. For me it ends up being; "when do I call it good enough and move on to the next one?" I gotta edit myself and maybe delete some overdubs that aren't working and know when to say when.
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Last year the accomplishment was almost enough, and 'lack of embarrassment' was definitely a motivating factor. Some songs were polished and some were cobbled together at the last minute. Under the circumstances I was/am proud of them, too.
This year I knew what I was getting into so I had a few ideas cooking from signup ten days or so before Feb. I worked at getting demo/scratch versions of each tune together that I could then tweak/polish as time allowed.
The idea being that I keep working until the end of Feb. If I feel I have finished all the songs, then fine. I can write some more and get to choose what goes on the album. It's about doing the best you can in the time alloted.
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Lunarsight
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 14:07I generally try and make an honest effort to write 35 minutes worth of decent material. The 10 songs thing is a nice safety net to fall back on, but if I did that, I could easily pass the challenge with about 20 minutes worth of stuff.
Realistically, song ideas usually only run to two to three minutes apiece. It's a limitation of Jeskola Buzz. The fastest way to churn out a song is to just keep adding new synth generators each time you add a new melody. (That way, you can add effects to the generator, and have it affect only that one melody.)
However, things get crowded awfully fast. By three minutes, I'm usually running out of space. (When I use Buzz to write longer songs, I reuse existing generators for multiple tracks, reprogramming the settings as needed. It saves space, but it's a time-consuming process.)
When I say I want 'decent' material, it's by no means perfect. I want to get it to 'listenable', at least, and then if I have time, I'll polish it up further.
What drives me? You always want to make an impression during the listening party. You want your song to hold its own compared to the others. (It may not be the absolute best song of the bunch, but you want people to at least say - "wow - he didn't suck half as much this year as he did last year!!")
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brantleyallen
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 15:27I'm resisting the temptation to just turn on the drum machine and 'noodle around for 30 minutes'. I like things to be relatively coherent, even if there is only 1 chordal phrase in the entire piece. I currently have 2 that use 1 chord pattern and 2 that use mulitple chord patterns.
Sure, the lack of embarrassment would be nice, but with me singing, that's just not possible. Still, I want my friends and family to recognize my work and yes, I want to be proud of it. I can't submit drivel, but I can't dissillusion myself to think that I'm a lyricist on the level of Jon Anderson or Neil Young. Nor am I a musician on the level of Steve Vai, Steve Howe, Chris Squire or even the Gypsy Guerrilla Band. I can do what I can do and that's it.
I currently have 4 songs at 12:08 total time. I'm concerned that I won't make it, though I really want to finish with the prescribed amount of tunes/time.
I have more ideas than talent, I think. I want to write more complex things and I haven't been able to, so I have had to settle on what I can actually play. So be it.
Anyway, personal satisfaction is my bar. If I'm not satisfied with the effort, I do more. If I'm satisfied, yet recognize the need to stop and move, I move on.
[removed silly quotes in edit]
Post edited by: brantleyallen, at: 2008/02/18 15:28
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room34
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 15:32I think it depends on the type of music you make, too. If your focus is tight, well-structured pop songs with engaging lyrics and melodic hooks (as formulaic as I'm making that sound), I think it takes a lot of work and refinement to perfect.
The music I do isn't really anything like that. I can't sing, so my music's almost entirely instrumental. (I do occasionally "rap" and yes, with me it needs to be in quotes.) It's also more programmatic, almost like soundtrack music (in fact, that's my aspiration musically -- film scoring), usually more about setting a mood than sucking the listener in with an irresistible hook.
To that extent it doesn't take me nearly as long to compose a piece of music. I usually don't work on music unless I'm inspired by an idea I want to capture; I think if I were to try when I wasn't inspired it might be difficult, but when I am inspired, it just kind of gushes (or occasionally oozes) out of my brain.
My approach to recording also has an impact. Probably about 60% of the tracks on my recordings are MIDI instruments: vintage keys and drums. So I lay down grooves on those instruments, clean them up as needed and loop them -- no need to do 20 takes the full length of the song to get it right (although I realize that means the music sounds a bit more synthetic, but that works fine for my style). Most of the other tracks are electric guitar and bass, which I record direct in, so I don't have to worry about getting mic set-ups perfect and other technical things like that. Other than solos, I usually end up turning my guitar tracks into loops too. Usually I play the bass parts straight through, unless I'm doing the bass line early in the composition process and I haven't worked out the entire structure of the piece yet. Occasionally I'll use acoustic guitar or saxophone or something like that which does need to be mic'ed, but for RPM this year I skipped those.
All of these are factors that are mostly outside of the actual "songwriting" (or I'd say composition, since my music rarely fits the strict definition of a "song") but have a big impact on how quickly you can put together an album's worth of material. As it is, I wrote and recorded my RPM album in something like 12 days, but I definitely don't feel like I rushed it; I think it might be my best solo work to date. But that speed has a lot to do with all of the factors I described above.
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bellamysprotege
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 15:35I think in general, I'm more interested in the process behind making music rather than the actual output itself - the trick is finding a balance between having something interesting (to me) going on behind the music, or in how the music was made and having something that other people can listenable! I wouldn't submit anything that I wasn't happy with, but that really is just a purely personal thing - I doubt anyone else would want to listen to the majority of my tracks! So i guess, like, brantleyallen (and I would guess a lot of the contributors here), personal satisfaction is 'the bar'
does that make sense?!
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room34
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 15:50Gumbo wrote: Yep! i want to be proud of it. Everything follows from that.
Last year the accomplishment was almost enough, and 'lack of embarrassment' was definitely a motivating factor. Some songs were polished and some were cobbled together at the last minute. Under the circumstances I was/am proud of them, too.
This year I knew what I was getting into so I had a few ideas cooking from signup ten days or so before Feb. I worked at getting demo/scratch versions of each tune together that I could then tweak/polish as time allowed.
The idea being that I keep working until the end of Feb. If I feel I have finished all the songs, then fine. I can write some more and get to choose what goes on the album. It's about doing the best you can in the time alloted. Ah, some good points here too. Part of the reason I was able to get so much done so quickly and be happy with the results is that I had a very specific concept in mind. In fact I've had that concept in mind since about September, and RPM just served as the catalyst to finally sit down and record it. But I went in already knowing exactly how many tracks I was going to record, what the theme of each of them was going to be, and what order they were going to be in on the final album.
I did eventually make a few adjustments to the structure -- I combined 3 tracks into 1, for instance, and the last track I recorded was one I struggled with conceptually a bit. But ultimately I didn't have to spend much, if any time, scrounging for ideas.
I also started doing some demo/scratch tracks about 4 days before the official start of the project, just because I was already starting to get some very specific ideas, and I didn't want to forget them in the intervening days! So I definitely hit the ground running on Feb. 1, which helped me get everything done.
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Chris Decato
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 17:31neat thread! and i think that it pokes right at the heart of what rpm is about... writing a bunch of songs that you might not have otherwise... having a deadline that MAKES you let it go, and stop tinkering. It would be silly to just hit record and noodle for 35 minutes, you might as well record yourself snoring... we all have our own thoughts about what art is i guess, so whatever your into, but i think that would miss the spirit of what rpm is, and what it can do for you... it's a chance to unclog the pipe without having to worry about what anyone else thinks... set the bar as high as you can and see if you can make it happen! we are all rooting for you!!
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mick
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 18:34I use it to push myself. I could echo every thing Stu said. I am proud of what I made last year, but this year knowing it's coming made all the difference.
To me it is a deadline. Sure I could do this all the time, but the deadline makes me get it done. And the community to keep me going. If this was just a "make an album" without the RPM community, the blogs, the messages, the demos, the discussions (like this one), it wouldn't be worth it. Gaia wouldn't have happened without this community. I could have made it on my own but it would have turned out flat, lacking the power it has now. So in RPM I know I have an open minded, understanding audience and that lets me branch out a little. Try some things that might not work (at least at first) that come out not quite so good. But learning is part of the process.
So I need the music to be hard enough to push me, to make me expand. Last year I said "no guitar" then cheated on Aura anyway but that was the most popular song on the album even though my favorite was Warmth. This year, I picked up the mandolin, and it's been my biggest challenge -- without RPM I probably would have never done that because if the mandolin part comes out, and sucks ass, I know there will be these folks that say, "Hey we understand, you're getting there, more time and you got it."
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oldemimickry
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 18:58I find that by setting the bar fairly high (35+ minutes of music I am totally comfortable with) I grow the most from the RPM experience. I've learned a lot of valuable things this year, and I'm already proud of my improvement over last year's album.. with only 3 songs so far and 11 days to go. I may not reach my goal and have to include some music I'm not totally cool with, but I'm okay with that, because it proves to me that I could.
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Shagbark
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 19:57Shagbark has always gone into it with the idea of releasing a CD with the product that comes out of February. So at least 10 songs in the 3-5 minute range completely produced albeit with our minimal instrumentation of guitar, bass, 2 piece drum kit, some tuba, and 2 vocals. The first year due to a badly timed bout with laryngitis and the mediocre result of my first ever mixing attempt the record may have fallen short of being release worthy but we did it anyway. I am quite proud of many of the songs on that record and hope to redo then some day. In year 2 I think we improved in many areas and released a proper album 13 tracks this time. I admit the were not all written in February but many were and the others were tracks we really wanted to record. This year due to the birth of my son we are using the challenge as more preproduction for a recording project down the road. RPM to us is really the kick in the pants to write and record since we don't seem to knuckle down and do that any other time of the year. I would really like to make a record during the summer months when colds and sore throats are less prevalent.
Chip
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Raleigh
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/18 20:22I remain very proud of last year's album. This year... sure, there is a certain amount of polish, but the end results aren't quote up to snuff. But, I'm pushing myself to try new ideas in composing: More weird time signatures that don't sound like a rehash of Yes albums, etc. I may be trying too hard.
That, for me, is the bar.
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the16points
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/22 23:01Wow, I am realizing my bar is set nowhere near as high as some people here!
I'm reading posts about mastering and cover design, and I'm like, Damn, I just want to get this thing written and modestly recorded! Of course, mastering is a bit beyond my skills, but cover design isn't even that hard for me, as I've done it in the past! (My skills are pretty simple, but see http://www.karatemedia.com/design/nutria.html for one of my favorities that I've done)
I've been worrying about chord progressions and challenging myself to write melodies (I mostly tend to drone when I sing), that I can't even imagine the tail end of some of this stuff!
I've treated the challenge as mostly "Write and record 10 songs" moreso than "Write and record an album" -- in the sense of an "album" being something that I could imagine people buying.
You guys are kicking my ass!
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Gumbo
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/22 23:21There is a long way from mastering to Mastering and also from modestly recording to Modestly Recording. What I mean is we each pitch it where we can, and that's the challenge.
What you might call modestly recording might mean a Lifetime Achievement Award to someone else, or 'a fair start' to a Pro. It doesn't matter.
I have learned to record so that my sound comes out fairly equal from song to song and with an absolute minimum of red peaks. My version of mastering is to get the CD to sound fairly consistent, and not lose bits of the recording.
It all varies and the challenge varies for each of us. Don't be trying to jump someone elses bar LOL
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the16points
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/22 23:27Very true, Gumbo. And of course, when i say "kicking my ass," I mean that in a positive way - It makes me want to set the bar even higher next year!
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ericpburt
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/22 23:32I am actually using this contest as a springboard of sorts. I havent recorded any music in around 8 years. I have had ideas that have gone unrecorded during that time, so i am using this to jot some of those ideas down. I am not a great drummer, but i can get by. I do however have a friend who is a great drummer, and i will give him a copy of my finished product so that he can "learn" the songs and we can start the whole thing over from scratch. I will also be adding a few songs at that time which i have recorded in the past. SO i guess you could say that my bar is set to the middle right now, as this is more of a demo for me. Im very glad i did this though, because it has gotten me back into my writing mode that i forgot existed! It also helped me finish songs that were just parts of ideas at the time. I never expected a few of the songs to go the way they did.
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pfedofsky
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/23 00:12For me, I'm never "pleased" with my recordings. Long ago, I had to learn the hard lesson that things will never be "done" or "perfect". It's not that I am accepting poor output, I still think that you cannot polish a turd . It's imperative that I find something compelling in the tracks that I record. More than anyone else, I'm my harshest critic. If I cannot find something in a demo that keeps my excited about making music, I shelve it. I no longer need things to be noiseless, free of mistakes, or perfectly sung. I think that that road leads to mental collapse hehe! RPM has been about cutting corners (for sure,) but if you take a square piece of paper and cut the corners, you still have most of what was on that paper initially. The biggest lesson that I have learned in doing this challenge is that the cuts should be small and infrequent. If you can't get a particular song done, or are spending too much time to "get it right", it's time to move on to another song and fix it after RPM is done instead of making huge compromises to get things done.
As far as mastering, I'm not selling this thing, and I don't want to have to feel financially tied to paying it off. I could try to master it myself, but as others have said, I try to keep it consistent throughout. If I overdrive a vocal phrase here or there, well, I recorded it on my home PC in my living room while entertaining my fussy 4 month old daughter. If I had the time to fix every audio foible, I'd be crying right now. If I had to reject every take where the baby made a noise, I'd have about 2 solid minutes of recorded material. My bar is what I call "mid-fi". It's not recorded on a boombox in my bedroom (super-duper lo-fi) and it's not recorded in a studio (hi-fi). The limitations of my setup used to piss me off, now they make me smile. Every time I listen to a track where my daughter is babbling in the background, I smile. Ten years from now, I can envision listening to that same track and still smiling because of that.
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Sister Savage
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/23 01:06Personally...I just do my best with the time I have. I'm trying to produce something that is better than last year's effort. And hopefully next year will be better again.
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Jeffrey David Archer
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/23 01:13navonski wrote: I try to think of my intended audience -family and friends- and try to put out something that I won't be embarrassed with.
Absolutely true of me as well. I tell people that I am taking part of the RPM challenge so when they ask to hear what it is I've recorded I don't want to play a bunch of crap for them.
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Joshua Wentz
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/23 01:34I don't think I can ever SET a bar. The bar exists, but it slides around a lot!
I started the challenge with an idea, and that idea change drastically as I recorded. The only thing i really won't budge on is that I want to create the best mix that I can.
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Kemmler
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/23 01:35For me the bar is like that - The type of music I make isn't really up most of my friends' respective alleys. So, if I can make it good enough that they at least say "hey, that sounds cool", I figure it's good enough. On the other hand, they were saying the same thing 7 years ago when I was putting out solid trash.
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Having released one unfinished song last year, I'm pretty sure of that.
Yup. That's it.
Post edited by: mick, at: 2008/02/23 01:47
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BrokenPromiseKeeper
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/23 01:53mick wrote: I think where ever I'm at on th 29th at about 3AM is the bar.
amen, brother
I just wanted everything to be better than last year -- songcraft, performance, and the mixing/mastering. so far, so good for my Challenge. but I've still got time to lay a big turd then run out of time polishing it...
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Kristen Miller
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/23 02:52I try to write something new to me, something that I wouldn't have done otherwise. The sound quality will be for sh*t, but that's because I'm recording a cello at home. I think of it as preproduction-- when I'm in the studio to release something to radio, it has to be note-perfect. But this, this is a creative challenge for me. Something to make me write instead of making excuses. I'm gonna go do more now. Instead of lurking on these boards. Peace, love, and cellos, Kristen
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Kristen Miller
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/23 02:52I try to write something new to me, something that I wouldn't have done otherwise. The sound quality will be for sh*t, but that's because I'm recording a cello at home. I think of it as preproduction-- when I'm in the studio to release something to radio, it has to be note-perfect. But this, this is a creative challenge for me. Something to make me write instead of making excuses. I'm gonna go do more now. Instead of lurking on these boards. Peace, love, and cellos, Kristen
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Be sure to post when you have something for us to hear, Kristen
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Kristen Miller
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Re:Where do you set the bar? - 2008/02/23 03:30hey there Gumbo, you know I will! I'm gonna go listen to yer stuff after I get this next verse written. Peace. love. cellos. yeah!!! K
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I am a genuine schitzo about this topic. Hopefull the neuroticism helps the creative process.
Good, Happy Wanderer Gary Side: I try to make a new album sound different than the last one. Different amp tones, different vocal technique, different miking, different way of using effects, different way of approaching lyrics or songs. Just different. I want to avoid putting out "Don't Look Back". (No disrespect to the dearly departed Mr. Delp, it was Scholtz who drove the sound)
If it sounds different tonally, then I have accomplished my goal. As far as the actual songs themselves, it's almost up to chance. Some of the songs will survive the test of time, others won't. It's like growing something; you never know what seeds will become trees.
Bad, Egotistical Gary Side: I have to blow every old album out of the water. I have to make this a giant leap forward. People have to listen and say "Damn...THAT was amazing" I will listen to my old best songs and think "How will I top that?" I will periodically become despondent, thinking "I don't think I can." Then, I get over my big, bad self and forget about all this egotistical crap and go back to being the happy wanderer. Wow, that last line sounded a little she-she. I had better shut up.
Now it's time to set another bar. Gin and Tonic anyone?
Cheers
Gary
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)
. It's imperative that I find something compelling in the tracks that I record. More than anyone else, I'm my harshest critic. If I cannot find something in a demo that keeps my excited about making music, I shelve it. I no longer need things to be noiseless, free of mistakes, or perfectly sung. I think that that road leads to mental collapse hehe! RPM has been about cutting corners (for sure,) but if you take a square piece of paper and cut the corners, you still have most of what was on that paper initially. The biggest lesson that I have learned in doing this challenge is that the cuts should be small and infrequent. If you can't get a particular song done, or are spending too much time to "get it right", it's time to move on to another song and fix it after RPM is done instead of making huge compromises to get things done. 
