The RPM Challenge - Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? -

home post reply threaded view rules help

Forum List

RPM Challenge

New Demos Posted

Kemmler

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 151

Karma: 3

If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 19:49 Ok, so I realize this is an insecure sentiment. But I also know that people receive a big ego boost when someone listens to a track and leaves feedback. So what happens when NOBODY does? I think we all feel this way from time to time, or even all of the time.

What say you?

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

BrokenPromiseKeeper

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 164

Karma: 8

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 19:53 I think it's more that others are busy with their own projects. I know I don't give nearly as much feedback as I'd like to get.

then again, I listen to some stuff and while it's not bad, it's just not my cup of tea. So I don't feel qualified to comment good or bad. For example, there's a lot of ambient keyboard stuff here that frankly puts me to sleep, but maybe that's the point? if so, it's all good, baby.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Joshua Wentz

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 470

Karma: 14

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 19:53 I say there's no correlation between lack of feedback on demos and "crappiness".

Sometimes I start listening to demos and then just start bouncing from profile to profile... listening to everyone's work. Often I never get back to the original forum post.

Other times, I listen to a demo and think, 'yeah, they've got it under control' and don't think to validate that with a post.

There's just SO much out there, and SO little time...

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

mick

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 911

Karma: 27

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 19:56 Not at all. We're all busy. Some of us our tired. I spend all day listening but don't have the time or energy to comment on them. I have listened to your stuff and even commented on it in the past. You'll find though many are listening here, we're all busy trying to make albums, too. So it's kind of a quiet community regarding feedback on songs. Doesn't mean it isn't happening.

And to me, for me suggest something for you to do different isn't my right. I could say "We'll I'd like to hear a drier mix in the drums" but that's only my opinion. Someone else is probably thinking "Man, I'd love to hear those drums dripping in reverb". It's not my art, it's yours.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

navonski

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 56

Karma: 1

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 19:56 I know what you mean.....
I suppose I don't know as many people on the boards so they don't listen because they don't know me? I dunno. My posts and blog don't get replies either most of the time. Maybe I'm just weird. I try not to think about it, but, yeah it kinda sucks.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Night Driving

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 103

Karma: 6

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 20:16 im with you, man. and i think some of the guys up there hit it on the head. ive been quite busy with recording myself, and although id love to listen and comment all the time, i havent been too much. this leaves the classic conundrum of wanting more than you get.

i hope this entire experience turns out to be a community builder for me, but until i get cracking a bit more and have more time to do non-music, i probably wont comment as much as id like, and therefore not receive as many as id like either.

but how about this...send me a private message later on and we can exchange a comment or two about our tunes?

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

zumatar

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 100

Karma: 5

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 20:20 mick wrote:
Not at all. We're all busy. Some of us our tired. I spend all day listening but don't have the time or energy to comment on them. I have listened to your stuff and even commented on it in the past. You'll find though many are listening here, we're all busy trying to make albums, too. So it's kind of a quiet community regarding feedback on songs. Doesn't mean it isn't happening.

And to me, for me suggest something for you to do different isn't my right. I could say "We'll I'd like to hear a drier mix in the drums" but that's only my opinion. Someone else is probably thinking "Man, I'd love to hear those drums dripping in reverb". It's not my art, it's yours.

...not much else too say, Mick's usually right...

RPM 2008 is actually a much more blog involved than 2007 even considered....I mean durning the challenge (and the ensuing months) I think at any given time about 10 peolpe was the most online and commenting. etc

part of the rpm mystique

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

ilovejen

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 154

Karma: 4

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 20:35 Kemmler wrote:
Ok, so I realize this is an insecure sentiment. But I also know that people receive a big ego boost when someone listens to a track and leaves feedback. So what happens when NOBODY does? I think we all feel this way from time to time, or even all of the time.

What say you?

I still haven't listened to something from each of the 870 albums that were submitted last year. There's just soo much stuff up. Can't listen and comment on all of it. Especially when I got my own shit to finish. But when it happens to be something I really, really, dig I do try to send a small. "I liked that" message.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kemmler

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 151

Karma: 3

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 20:51 I think everyone so far has some good, valid points. I just wanted to get this out there, because I think it's a thought most of us have from time to time. On the other hand, yeah, everyone here is obviously a little busy...

So I guess I just wanted to make an "I'm OK, you're OK" type post, especially after seeing the "who do I have to sleep with to get feedback" blog post. It definetly struck a chord with me.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

tangmo
User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 305

Karma: 11

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 20:54 The blogs do seem to be flying by faster this year and not getting the 'hits' they might have in previous years. That's mostly exciting, I think...but has its downside too.

For all the reasons that have been mentioned, 'we' are probably not a great 'audience' at the moment, but I think you'll find as people start to wrap up and it get's closer to (and just after) the deadline that listenership will increase a whole lot.

Most folks don't have time to do much more than dabble at the moment, but that will change.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

jinmenju

User

Expert Boarder

Posts: 34

Karma: 0

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 21:53 I'm just lazy.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Gumbo

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 539

Karma: 12

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 22:19

there is of course the possibility that

demo=crap

not that I'm talking about anyone in particular coz I haven't heard any crap yet. But it is possible

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

pfedofsky

User

Expert Boarder

Posts: 35

Karma: 0

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 22:36 I've listened to a bunch of stuff that people are putting up. I've put up half my record as well. I've had a few people respond to my own stuff, and I've reciprocated with a few comments about other people's demos. Time is definitely an issue. The best feedback that I am getting is usually from my friends. As for the demos=crap thing, don't take board silence too personally. I will say that is certainly is an ego-boost to get good feedback on a demo, but I can guarantee that for every 15 listens to a demo, there are probably 9 people thinking that it is okay, 3 loving it (and one of those posting about it... maybe,) 2 people hating on it, and one person building a shrine to you in their basement

. As for if that shrine person is a good or bad thing, I don't know... yet.

I am now pledging to comment more about listening to demos.

[edit]
Oh yeah, there are just complete genres that I won't touch like electronica or hardcore stuff. Not my cup of tea...

Post edited by: pfedofsky, at: 2008/02/13 22:39

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

ajbrewer

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 78

Karma: 1

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 22:48 I remember writing on one of these threads in here at the beginning that I would comment more on people's work. And at the time I sincerely meant it. Then came the starting blast, and, well, not so much commenting, in fact, pretty much no commenting. I listened to a few things in the beginning (when ideas of mine were moving much faster), but right now, I'm down in the trenches, and it's not pretty up there. Feeling like head gone if not staying in the trenches type of not pretty. Things are progressing, just slooowwwwly. However, this album will get done, all there is to it. So, anyway, there's my excuse. From what I've heard so far though, I don't think I've heard any 'crap', I've been impressed from the beginning of last year how talented people are here...certainly makes my job a little more challenging.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

17string

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 80

Karma: 3

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/13 23:03 As far as listening to demoes, I've barely scratched the surface. I think the "demoes on your profile page" idea is brilliant, and I have indeed made time to sample an extremely small amount of personal offerings. Before RPM 2008 kicked in, I was eating up the Jukebox, trying to get a feel for the music that I hadn't heard yet. The flip side is that I (and I wonder how many others) don't visit blogs on a regular basis to see who's inviting comment. I simply don't have the time to read blogs.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Raleigh

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 256

Karma: 3

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/14 00:10 I dislike the plethora of "NEW DEMO UP" posts in this forum. It was easier for me to listen to demos when they were all in one thread. Maybe it is just me.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Gumbo

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 539

Karma: 12

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/14 00:13 Raleigh wrote:
I dislike the plethora of "NEW DEMO UP" posts in this forum. It was easier for me to listen to demos when they were all in one thread. Maybe it is just me.

it would be useful to have some identifying mark inscribed on each different topic so you can figure out which one has been replied to

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Bigstarlet

User

Expert Boarder

Posts: 33

Karma: 6

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/21 04:42 I can tell you, from my end, I'm having a hard enough time putting together my own work without feeling the need to throw in my two cents on other people's work.

I put mine up for review on my site. I've gotten over getting pissy if noone responds. There's only 9 days left in the challenge. Expect the boards to get quiet.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Gary Fox

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 321

Karma: 9

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/21 05:24 Ha, finally got my internet access working here in this hotel in lovely Canada. Looking forward to getting home to NH in a couple of days...

Anyway, this post...
---------------------------------------------------

I would like to listen more and comment more, but I have some barriers. Some are self imposed, others I have no control over (at least I think so)

1. Time. Just like everyone else, getting in and listening and commenting is hard. I am usually working during the day, and trying to record at night. Coupled with travel to other places (like right now) I have to use my time wisely. I will do some listening to demos this evening though.

2. Organization. This site is for our enjoyment, so I can't fault a gift horse, but finding the demos this year is hard. There is no organization, nor is there a way to sort through styles I "get" and could offer meaningful feedback on. I know I should expand my horizons and just listen to everything. I do that sometimes, but if someone actually wants feedback, I would prefer to do it with music that I think I could actually be constructive with. Noise music (is that a genre?) for example I cannot meaningful comment on. "Um, it sounds, um, noisy, so I guess you did a good job..."

3. Frustration. I will be happy to send quick notes such as "Liked ____, good song" or "Hey, ______ was cool, very original". I will do that, but if someone really wants feedback, I try to be thoughtful and actually listen to the song and put on my producer hat. If asked for my opinion, I am happy to give it, constructively. Here is an example of a review I gave someone on Garageband:

The talent is here, now it needs some character
Interesting listen, and a tough review to write.

Let me start with one of your review points:
Balance ( I assume you mean the mix of all of the instruments, and the equalization, etc)
My response is Don't Bother With It. This is a very crisp recording, almost a textbook example of how to record a song. Here is where the problem lies; the song is too clean. It lacks character as a result. For example, the guitars are perfectly clean, with some delay to add depth. The bass is mixed perfectly with the kick drum. The drums have exactly the right reverb. It sounds perfectly balanced but it ends up too sterile. It sounds like this song lyrically comes from a personal spot, those emotions should color every aspect of the recording.

How do you accomplish this?
1. If you want clean guitar, then maybe put it through a small, old tube amp, with ZERO effects. Use a room mike in conjunction with a mike behind the amp. It will be clean, but not pristine. It will be raw, but keep the chords sounding clear.
2. Maybe try killing the reverb on all the drums. Go for more of a close miked feel by recording the drums in a very small room. Mike the kick and snare, and then use two overhead mikes to capture everything else.
Again, the idea is to try to make the song more intimate, give it some "real" feel. Sometimes a "bad" sound or recording actually sounds better than the "proper" way to do it.

In fact, I could sum it up this way for this song: Clear is good, clean is not. Hope that helps.

Another idea for this song:Harmonies. The singer is good, though a little restrained. Harmonies will help that, and add some color to the song, espcially in the later parts.

I hear you trying to add some color with the change at 3:02. Putting your voice through the distortion box was a good idea for a little ear candy. However, leave it to that quick part of the song. You don't want to become over-reliant on audio tricks to make the song sound different, focus on recording it differently to start with. Give it atmosphere first, then go back and add ear candy afterwards.

The song itself is actually pretty good, and the band is clearly good. Now it's time to let the personalities of the band and the song come out.
END

This sort of reveiw takes some focus, and thought. I also appreciate a thanks for this level of detail, which I rarely freaking get, hence frustration. Again, if asked for an opinion, and it's just that, I will show the courtesy of giving the song real attention. I actually have become pretty friendly with someone who absolutely hated my opinion, but loved the fact that I gave details and reasons. I in turn was fine with being told I was totally wrong, but thanks for the effort. Group hug everyone!

Ok, it's clear I haven't been on the boards for a few days, 'cause this post is way over it's time limit. Anyway, I will be happy to give feedback, real feedback. Just tell me where to go to listen, keep it to just one or two songs and thank me for it afterwards. (now I sound like a big pain in the @$$). Seriously, willing to do it.

Shutting up now,

Cheers,

Gary

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Lunarsight

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 184

Karma: 4

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/21 08:04 I think others have already hit the nail on the head - we're all kind of busy with our respective projects now (particularly with the proverbial finish line on the horizon..)

I was planning on listening to a crapload of stuff in March - I'm really intrigued by what a lot of the other RPMers are doing.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

David

User

Senior Boarder

Posts: 14

Karma: 0

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/21 10:15 i think it's mostly what everybody is saying - we are all so busy trying to get our OWN stuff done, we don't have TIME to listen to other peoples stuff, which is a real shame because it's kind of screwing up the whole point of this exercise...

BUT how about this for an idea - what if a separate board was set up (or probably even better, a new board category) where only NON-PARTICIPANTS were invited to review demos (after all, they have the time)

i originally heard about this challenge from a slashdot posting, i'll bet if we made an appeal to the good slashdot people to help us out, we could get tons of feedback from average listeners, you (the rpm challenge management) could possibly even set up a simple poll system....

what does everyone think - is this a stupid idea?

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

ajbrewer

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 78

Karma: 1

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/21 15:41 Hmmm....I would be down with that idea. More feedback is always nice, and if there are people willing to listen...and, yea, it would be nice to hear from some "average joes," so to speak. I try to get some feedback from friends and family who aren't musicians, but it can be a tough slog. Nowdays, the way music is, if it's not a no. 1 hit being played on ClearChannel every five minutes, a lot of people are just kind of "eh...", and you'll never hear from them.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Raleigh

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 256

Karma: 3

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/21 15:55 First:

David wrote:
i think it's mostly what everybody is saying - we are all so busy trying to get our OWN stuff done, we don't have TIME to listen to other peoples stuff, which is a real shame because it's kind of screwing up the whole point of this exercise...

BUT how about this for an idea - what if a separate board was set up (or probably even better, a new board category) where only NON-PARTICIPANTS were invited to review demos (after all, they have the time)

i originally heard about this challenge from a slashdot posting, i'll bet if we made an appeal to the good slashdot people to help us out, we could get tons of feedback from average listeners, you (the rpm challenge management) could possibly even set up a simple poll system....

what does everyone think - is this a stupid idea?

I am unfamiliar with the culture of slashdot: I hope they are good people. But I have been on internet boards for a long time, and there is the usual percentage of douchebaggery on any of them. While the RPM Challenge is no time to get precious, nobody wants to read a review of their work that goes something like "dude, your song was the gayest gay thing I've ever heard 'cos your gay - you've been al cap(/)wned!" Perhaps your song was particularly free-spiritied. Perhaps your song was uninhibited. Perhaps your song was homostereosexual. Or, perhaps you'd be annoyed and/or insulted.

That said, I'm a big (and gay) fellow who can take a thoughtful review like the one Mr. Fox posted earlier or a simple private message that says "I like your tracks!" and feel good about my project. Having some cretin get their jollies by typing the word "suck" over and over again is not helpful as "the treble is too high on the drums."

Which brings me to my second point:

The RPM Challenge is a lot like a support group or a writers' group. We seldom criticize one another because most of us do not want to be criticized in return. By "criticize" I mean, the whole Roger Ebert gave the movie a thumbs down in a witty, scalpelled pan. Like it or not, the culture of these boards is more geared towards helping one another out than it is towards reviewing technical aspects of arrangement, craft, lyrics or recording.

I have listened to a couple dozen demos, but I have commented on only a few. I am no fan of the blues or hip hop. I have heard tracks that were pure (or borrowed from) genre examples that I liked, but I honestly don't feel I understand the genre to give an informed response. "Well, its got a nice beat and you can dance to it. Dick Clark, I'll give it a seven!" But, I step out of my comfort box and listen. I know others do the same things. If I am moved enough: I'll comment. I ask no more of the rest of the RPM family.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Gumbo

User

Platinum Boarder

Posts: 539

Karma: 12

Re:If nobody gives you feedback, demos=crap? - 2008/02/21 16:54 Raleigh wrote:
If I am moved enough: I'll comment. I ask no more of the rest of the RPM family.

Amen to that.
I tend to comment if I'm surprised by something, like "Ah you got me!"

With a week or less of recording time left, and being back at work (away from the internet) next week, I will probably be taking less and less risks, listening wise. If you have something that you think fits in with my (roots/americana/blues) tastes AND you have a 'fairly' specific question feel free to pm me. I'll answer if I have time. ANd thank you to Ye who have dropped a line to say "Cool stuff" or "That ROX" or such, coz that helps too.

If any of you happen to hear something in my stuff that is effing up the mix for you then PLEASE tell me. I can be a bit deaf sometimes.

This month to me, is about crazily creating a bunch of music that feels like an accomplishment. Last year this last week (the Furnace), brought forth some real surprises. If you're stuck with something post a forum topic and DON'T WAIT. Start making something in your spare time. You'll be surprised.

| | The administrator has disabled public write access.

Raleigh

User

Platinum Boarder